# LeBron to return to Cleveland **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 11, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875 "2014-07-11T17:15:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![FBJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e8cbc/32.png) [@FBJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FBJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/101 "2014-07-13T22:00:01Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Yes, also the same team that made it to the conference semifinals and took the number one seed to six games. Also the same team that has a backcourt that is a combined 44 years old and figures to get better, perhaps substantially so. > > I haven’t looked closely yet, but my guess is that the Wizards will probably project to win around 48 games with some improvement from Wall and Beal. They’ll still be behind Chicago, Cleveland, Indiana, and probably Miami, and Charlotte is close on their heels, but they’re unquestionably a playoff team and I’m not sure the same is true of Brooklyn. How if they have no coach?😕 ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/102 "2014-07-13T22:02:53Z")
They won 44 with Wittman last year; there’s no reason to expect they can’t win 48 with him this year. Wall and Beal are going to be really good. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/103 "2014-07-14T00:24:27Z")
The Wall & Gortat pick and roll got better and better as the season went on, as well. Washington is a team on the rise, certainly. If Nene’s healthy, they can make a return to the second round, and have a decent chance of making the conference final. The black hole that their small forward position has been is the main problem, if Pierce has another good season in him, he can play for a winner, maybe do some mentoring of the young guys. Makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![FBJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e8cbc/32.png) [@FBJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FBJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/104 "2014-07-14T00:46:24Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The Wall & Gortat pick and roll got better and better as the season went on, as well. Washington is a team on the rise, certainly. If Nene’s healthy, they can make a return to the second round, and have a decent chance of making the conference final. The black hole that their small forward position has been is the main problem, if Pierce has another good season in him, he can play for a winner, maybe do some mentoring of the young guys. Makes sense to me. Pierce was my man for years but now he is a bench player ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/105 "2014-07-14T01:00:32Z")
> [@FBJJ](#): > > Pierce was my man for years but now he is a bench player On most teams, sure, but Washington? Who would you start over Pierce? Martell Webster? Otto Porter? He won’t play starter’s minutes, but they have no small forwards better than Pierce. In other news, Houston didn’t match Chandler Parsons’ offer from Dallas after all. ---
**Author:** ![FBJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e8cbc/32.png) [@FBJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FBJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/106 "2014-07-14T01:03:15Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > On most teams, sure, but Washington? Who would you start over Pierce? Martell Webster? Otto Porter? He won’t play starter’s minutes, but they have no small forwards better than Pierce. > In other news, Houston didn’t match Chandler Parsons’ offer from Dallas after all. Probably because he didn’t do sh\*t against the Blazers in round 1 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/107 "2014-07-14T01:03:48Z")
That’s weird, what’s Houston saving their money for now that they’ve whiffed on Carmelo and Lebron? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/108 "2014-07-14T01:28:20Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > That’s weird, what’s Houston saving their money for now that they’ve whiffed on Carmelo and Lebron? They may just not think he’s worth quite that much. Or they may want to plug a couple of other holes with the money they’re saving here. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/109 "2014-07-14T01:44:21Z")
> [@FBJJ](#): > > Not sure why he would want to end his career with a team like that He might not. He can opt out after this season if he decides he doesn’t want to be there. But the Wizards do have the makings of an up and coming team. The fact that they weren’t as good as Indiana last year doesn’t mean they suck. Deng is going to Miami for $20 million/2 years. Is it me or is Miami just going to kind of be a better Hawks this year? That’s not awful and they can go after other guys next year, but I can’t tell if they think they can be one of the best teams in the East or not. They’re not giving up for sure. Meanwhile I’m excited for the Bulls with Mirotic and Gasol. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/110 "2014-07-14T01:46:37Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Wiggins is not going to make much of an impact in the next three years. I understand it’s prediction and speculation, but I think this is crazy talk of the highest order and if nothing else, I want posterity to reflect that someone stood up on the side of order and reason: oh yes he will. ---
**Author:** ![FBJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e8cbc/32.png) [@FBJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FBJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/111 "2014-07-14T01:52:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He might not. He can opt out after this season if he decides he doesn’t want to be there. But the Wizards do have the makings of an up and coming team. The fact that they weren’t as good as Indiana last year doesn’t mean they suck. > > Deng is going to Miami for $20 million/2 years. Is it me or is Miami just going to kind of be a better Hawks this year? That’s not awful and they can go after other guys next year, but I can’t tell if they think they can be one of the best teams in the East or not. They’re not giving up for sure. Meanwhile I’m excited for the Bulls with Mirotic and Gasol. The Heat will be just as good as the Cavs, they have Deng, Wade, and Bosh and Chalmers. And Birdman is coming back So tell me what makes the Cavs a whole lot better than the Heat? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/112 "2014-07-14T02:19:26Z")
If you’re playing the Heat, who is your best defender guarding? It used to be LeBron, but now? I think Wade will be reduced to the level of Joe Johnson without LeBron there. > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I understand it’s prediction and speculation, but I think this is crazy talk of the highest order and if nothing else, I want posterity to reflect that someone stood up on the side of order and reason: oh yes he will. Wiggins can be an NBA level defender today. His offensive game will need to develop, but I see no reason he can’t be at least as good as Kawhi Leonard as a rookie. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/113 "2014-07-14T02:22:04Z")
> [@FBJJ](#): > > The Heat will be just as good as the Cavs, they have Deng, Wade, and Bosh and Chalmers. And Birdman is coming back > > So tell me what makes the Cavs a whole lot better than the Heat? Bosh is coming off his worst NBA season ever, Wade missed 28 games, Anderson is 36, Chalmers isn’t a league-average point guard, and Deng missed 19 games and is also coming off arguably his worst NBA season. The Cavs have their own injury red flag with Varejao, but it’s a younger, healthier nucleus. And they have the best player in the league, in his prime. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/114 "2014-07-14T02:46:01Z")
> [@FBJJ](#): > > So tell me what makes the Cavs a whole lot better than the Heat? Lebron single-handedly makes just about any team in the East an instant, guaranteed conference finalist. Couple that with the fact that Irving plays pg - the one position that’s been haunting the Heat for half a decade? I’d say that the Cavs are definitely better than the Heat going into 2014-15. If the Kevin Love rumors are true (it’s seeming less and less likely with each passing day) then forget about it. That team will win 65 blindfolded and backwards. ---
**Author:** ![FBJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e8cbc/32.png) [@FBJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FBJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/115 "2014-07-14T02:52:49Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Bosh is coming off his worst NBA season ever, Wade missed 28 games, Anderson is 36, Chalmers isn’t a league-average point guard, and Deng missed 19 games and is also coming off arguably his worst NBA season. > > The Cavs have their own injury red flag with Varejao, but it’s a younger, healthier nucleus. And they have the best player in the league, in his prime. No bench doe ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/116 "2014-07-14T03:09:03Z")
I think people need to take into account if Bosh’s season was bad because he was giving up shots to Lebron. We may see his production tick up to his Toronto days to make up for the points Lebron’s not taking from him. Though I agree with everyone else about Wade, he’s on a pretty steep downhill trend and has been for years, but was able to hide that in Lebron’s wake. I wonder if the team will be built around Wade or Bosh now and who’s taking those last second shots At the same time, you’ll probably want to bet that Lebron makes up for some defensive lapses by the Cavs and they’ll be back to a top 10 defense next year. And since he can handle the ball too, that can free up Kyrie to do more scoring ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/117 "2014-07-14T03:20:06Z")
> [@FBJJ](#): > > No bench doe Not at the moment, no, but they still have a wad of cap space, and there are [plenty of good-to-decent free agents still on the market.](http://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2014.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/118 "2014-07-14T03:57:05Z")
I could play eight minutes a game off the bench for the Cavs and they’d be better than the Heat this year. OK, four. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/119 "2014-07-14T05:51:18Z")
> [@FBJJ](#): > > The Heat will be just as good as the Cavs, they have Deng, Wade, and Bosh and Chalmers. And Birdman is coming back > > So tell me what makes the Cavs a whole lot better than the Heat? LeBron. These teams are swapping Deng and James, and that goes a long way. Add in Mike Miller and maybe Kevin Love, and yes, that’s better than the Heat. You tell me if LeBron + Kyrie Irving + Love + Varejao + Miller looks like the makings of a better team than what the Heat have. (It does.) If they don’t end up with Love, then LeBron + Irving + Wiggins + Varejao with Bennett and Thompson and Waiters filling various roles is at least a place to start. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Bosh is coming off his worst NBA season ever, Wade missed 28 games, Anderson is 36, Chalmers isn’t a league-average point guard, and Deng missed 19 games and is also coming off arguably his worst NBA season. In their defense, Bosh’s numbers were down because of the role the team asked him to play and that’s going to change now. I’m less down on him than some people here: he’s a big guy who is excellent at stretching the floor and he won’t be forced to stay on the perimeter for spacing purposes, so he’ll get to show off his versatility. Deng was stuck in a crappy situation in Cleveland. (I hate seeing incompetence rewarded: Cleveland traded a bunch of picks for Deng and Hawes and missed the playoffs and lost them for nothing, but wound up with cap space What a country!) I like Andersen, but he’s an energy who is getting old and Chalmers is maybe an average player with above-average confidence. Wade’s just going to be a question mark all the time. It’s not a good sign if the Heat are asking him to play a _bigger_ role as he ages. They can’t afford to sit him for a third of their games now, but how much of a workload can he take? > [@](#): > > The Cavs have their own injury red flag with Varejao, but it’s a younger, healthier nucleus. And they have the best player in the league, in his prime. Pretty much, yes. I was not nearly as sanguine about the Cavs as LeBron and others are, but if you want to look at it in a positive way, there is a lot to work with. > [@FBJJ](#): > > No bench doe What bench to the Heat have? Andersen, Norris Cole, Shabazz Napier and James Jones? I’m not overwhelmed. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/120 "2014-07-14T12:40:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In their defense, Bosh’s numbers were down because of the role the team asked him to play and that’s going to change now. I’m less down on him than some people here: he’s a big guy who is excellent at stretching the floor and he won’t be forced to stay on the perimeter for spacing purposes, so he’ll get to show off his versatility. Deng was stuck in a crappy situation in Cleveland. (I hate seeing incompetence rewarded: Cleveland traded a bunch of picks for Deng and Hawes and missed the playoffs and lost them for nothing, but wound up with cap space What a country!) I like Andersen, but he’s an energy who is getting old and Chalmers is maybe an average player with above-average confidence. Wade’s just going to be a question mark all the time. It’s not a good sign if the Heat are asking him to play a _bigger_ role as he ages. They can’t afford to sit him for a third of their games now, but how much of a workload can he take? I don’t mean to suggest that he’s a bad player or had a bad season, but he’s Miami’s best player now, and is aging out of his prime. He’s part of the answer to why the Cavs will be better than the Heat: where are you really going with Chalmers, Wade, Deng, McRoberts, and Bosh? That’s a lot of second-bananas for one roster. “Incompetence Rewarded” could be the title of a book about the 2011-2014 Cavaliers. > [@](#): > > Pretty much, yes. I was not nearly as sanguine about the Cavs as LeBron and others are, but if you want to look at it in a positive way, there is a lot to work with. Given that LeBron only considered leaving Miami for Cleveland and nowhere else, it’s a better situation going forward than Miami was, especially considering that they still have cap space and moves to make (ie, Love), and that Wiggins might be really good right away. I wonder if LeBron would sign off on making an offer to Lance Stephenson… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875.md?page=7)