# Led Zeppelin's Kashmir **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 10, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884 "2017-03-10T17:21:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/141 "2017-03-12T17:15:40Z")
So I just went to Youtube to revisit the original recording of Kashmir since the Celebration Day version is the one that’s become uppermost in my mind, and what did I see in the comments? > [@](#): > > This song is like a giant dick pounding my ear-pussy! 😃 Hard to quibble with that, really. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/142 "2017-03-12T18:12:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So I just went to Youtube to revisit the original recording of Kashmir since the Celebration Day version is the one that’s become uppermost in my mind, and what did I see in the comments? > > 😃 Hard to quibble with that, really. Ha. Though, for me that better describes “When the Levee Breaks.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/143 "2017-03-12T18:27:32Z")
Hard to quibble with that also. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/144 "2017-03-13T03:28:02Z")
The only problem I have with Kashmir is that a bunch of different artists I like have a version of it, and as good as they are, I don’t really want a bunch of slightly different versions of the same song on my play list. [HD/HQ Escala - Perform Kashmir Led Zeppelin - Britains Got Talent Semi Final Show 2 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfxboOXj-w) [Kashmir - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOio4GJdG_w) Interestingly enough, I do have 3 versions of Bach’s “Toccata and Fugue” but they’re all quite different from each other, much more so than the above renditions of Kashmir. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/s-ORHWt-y4Q/hqdefault.jpg "Phantoms by Trans-Sylvanian Orchestra") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ORHWt-y4Q) [Toccata By The Trans-Siberian Orchestra - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK-RsJnxW6k) (Only the beginning is really the same piece; I think it quickly diverges into something else entirely) [Jennifer Thomas: Illumination - Toccata and Fugue - Track 9 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbIF1lpDK3Q) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/145 "2017-03-13T04:02:39Z")
[quote=“glowacks, post:144, topic:781884”] Interestingly enough, I do have 3 versions of Bach’s “Toccata and Fugue” but they’re all quite different from each other, much more so than the above renditions of Kashmir. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/s-ORHWt-y4Q/hqdefault.jpg "Phantoms by Trans-Sylvanian Orchestra") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ORHWt-y4Q) [Toccata By The Trans-Siberian Orchestra - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK-RsJnxW6k) (Only the beginning is really the same piece; I think it quickly diverges into something else entirely) [/QUOTE] Vive la différence! “Hi. Me again with my Bits and Bites of Baroque. Stickin’ my fingers on the keyboard and comin’ out with a new handful. Well, what have we got here? Toccata and Fugue, and Introduction and Fugatto. Delicious. Next handful, a whole new ballgame. You can’t get enough of those Bits and Bites of Baroque snacks 'cause your ears never knows till’ its all over. Bits and Bites of Baroque: every handful is different. Yeah!” (I don’t have a memory, so when messing about, I end up with bits of Bach’s Toccata and Fugue all jumbled up with bites of Harris’ Introduction and Fugatto, never knowing what will happen, but always enjoying the ride.) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/146 "2017-03-13T10:15:19Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > The only problem I have with Kashmir is that a bunch of different artists I like have a version of it, and as good as they are, I don’t really want a bunch of slightly different versions of the same song on my play list. > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfxboOXj-w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfxboOXj-w) > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOio4GJdG\_w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOio4GJdG_w) Wow. Those were educational, **glowacks** , your mileage definitely varies from mine. i see talent in the execution, but man, those interpretations just don’t work for me. The middle violin guy sounds like a cut off **Kansas’** Point of No Return album, which is kind of fun. The other two are too cheesy to really support the song. Here’s a great string quartet version: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xriCZzyaC7Q](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xriCZzyaC7Q) Just a great sound. The cellist, especially, when he kicks in after a couple minutes, oh man - what a great low end for this song. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pork-Chop\_Express](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@The\_Pork-Chop\_Express](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Pork-Chop_Express)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/147 "2017-03-13T12:37:01Z")
Somewhat related pet hate: When people don’t know a bad film they like is a remake of a good film. Case in point: My cousin liking The Haunting (1999). ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/148 "2017-03-13T14:36:30Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Another thing to point out is the phase shifter on Bonham’s drums. That added layer of “whooooSHHHHHhHHooooooosh” adds something to his slow groove. It was a still a relatively new effect with a few standout uses, like that whooshy middle bit in Free Ride. Eddie’s use of his trusty MXR Phase 90 (modified, of course) made it a must have on your pedalboard. But it really works on the Kashmir drums. I’m pretty sure they used one on “What Is And What Should Never Be”. That was released about 7 years earlier, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/149 "2017-03-13T14:43:17Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > I’m pretty sure they used one on “What Is And What Should Never Be”. That was released about 7 years earlier, IIRC. Yep, on the vocals, right? This is still a standout use on drums. Van Halen didn’t come out until '78, but his work still stands as notable use of phase shifting. That’s it. In this particular case, rather than just be a sound-cool novelty, it adds a bit of propulsion to Bonham’s drum groove, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Gladdest\_Fain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Gladdest\_Fain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Gladdest_Fain)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/150 "2017-03-13T15:01:20Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Hmmm. Learning more things today. I always thought Robert Plant was the guy who sang “Addicted To Love”. I see now that that was Robert Palmer. > > I should probably just stop posting in this thread before I really piss someone off. ⭕o :smack: Oh’m’golly, this is so cute it makes me want to hurl…in a good way. Like a puppy. My first “Crap, I’m getting old” experience was just like this. I’d been out of college for maybe five years, and was working in a car rental office with a younger kid, around 19-20 years old. He was an urban, thug-wannabe, and this was right when “Smooth” with Rob Thomas and Santana was big on the radio. He and I were on a job together, driving around, and listening to this song, he said, “Man, I like this song. I’d love to play guitar like that Carlos Santana.” I’d been playing guitar for years at this point, and knowing his reputation and work, I was not a big Santana fan, still not. I replied with as much grace as possible, “Yeah, he’s good at what he does for an old guy.” “…what do you mean?” “Carlos Santana? He’s been around a long time.” “Does he have a son?” “He probably does, but this isn’t his son. This is him on the song. He was at Woodstock.” Blew.his.mind. At 43, I’m no longer surprised kids 20 years younger than me don’t know all the pop culture from when I was their age, I simply find it extremely amusing. Walking through a Half Price bookstore about a month ago, I overheard the girls pricing CDs, “What’s this? ‘Marky Mark’ Is that Mark Wahlberg?!?” ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/151 "2017-03-13T15:06:17Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Other ones I eventually learned over the course of my life (some earlier and faster than others): The tune of “Ice, Ice, Baby” is really “Under Pressure”, The Wallflowers are not the original singers of “Heroes” (also, coincidentally, from the 1998 Godzilla soundtrack), rather David Bowie is, Bruce Hornsby sang “That’s Just the Way It Is”, not Tupac…and “Mo Money, Mo Problems” by The Notorious BIG is really Diana Ross’ “I’m Coming Out”. > I do have to admit I prefer both new versions of “Heroes” and “That’s Just The Way It Is” to their original counterparts. > > Uh, that also applies to “Come With Me”. I have to admit, now that I’ve heard “Kashmir”, it’s just not as good. I grew up with hearing that tune in “Come With Me”. It just SOUNDS better to me in that song. I’m going to go run and hide from the forming murderous mob, now. “Heroes” has been covered a LOT. I’m partial to the TV on The Radio version, [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zC58ZlC44E). ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/152 "2017-03-13T15:29:38Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Yep, on the vocals, right? > > This is still a standout use on drums. Van Halen didn’t come out until '78, but his work still stands as notable use of phase shifting. That’s it. In this particular case, rather than just be a sound-cool novelty, it adds a bit of propulsion to Bonham’s drum groove, IMHO. Completely agree. Bonham was a monster. I was just addressing the bit about it being a new effect. Although it wouldn’t surprise me if it was first use on drums. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/153 "2017-03-13T15:37:35Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > Completely agree. Bonham was a monster. I was just addressing the bit about it being a new effect. Although it wouldn’t surprise me if it was first use on drums. I am not that geeky on effects’ history. I just Googled first use of phase and I read general statements like “the late 60’s” and a first-popular-song mention of **The Small Faces’ Itchycoo Park.** No clue on first drum use. I think \*\*Peter Criss \*\*used them a lot in the solo (live? sweetened in the studio?) on Kiss Alive. But that’s just my 12 1/2 year old reptile brain trying to remember. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/154 "2017-03-13T16:10:52Z")
While we’re on the subject --phaser vs flanger – what’s the difference? I know I can look it up but I’d rather hear it from the guitar and music geeks. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/155 "2017-03-13T16:22:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > While we’re on the subject --phaser vs flanger – what’s the difference? I know I can look it up but I’d rather hear it from the guitar and music geeks. Off the top of my head, I believe phasing affects that phase of the electric signal. Flanging affects time, adding a bit of delay. In both cases the signal is split, with one copy kept normal and one copy affected. With phasing, the two signals cycle from completely in to completely out of phase. With flanging, the treated copy is cycled through a level of delay; like a cycling chorus effect. I am _very_ open to having someone correct any mistakes here. I really am not an effects guy, so I have only learned enough to grasp the basics. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/156 "2017-03-13T16:28:32Z")
Hey - Wikipedia seems to agree with me. Cool. > **[Flanging](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanging)** > > Flanging /ˈflændʒɪŋ/ is an audio effect produced by mixing two identical signals together, one signal delayed by a small and (usually) gradually changing period, usually smaller than 20 milliseconds. This produces a swept comb filter effect: peaks and notches are produced in the resulting frequency spectrum, related to each other in a linear harmonic series. Varying the time delay causes these to sweep up and down the frequency spectrum. A flanger is an effects unit that creates this effect. > Pa... > **[Phaser (effect)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaser_(effect))** > > A phaser is an electronic sound processor used to filter a signal, and it has a series of troughs in its frequency-attenutation graph. The position (in Hz) of the peaks and troughs are typically modulated by an internal low-frequency oscillator so that they vary over time, creating a sweeping effect. > Phasers are often used to give a "synthesized" or electronic effect to natural sounds, such as human speech. The voice of C-3PO from Star Wars was created by taking the actor's voice and treating i... ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/157 "2017-03-13T16:52:53Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > Completely agree. Bonham was a monster. I was just addressing the bit about it being a new effect. Although it wouldn’t surprise me if it was first use on drums. JHB actually got a writing credit for Kashmir. As I was check that, couldn’thelp but read more of the wiki article. This made me smile about how they tried to recruit him into the band: > [@](#): > > However, on seeing Bonham drum for Tim Rose at a club in Hampstead, north London, in July 1968, Page and manager Peter Grant were convinced he was perfect for the project, first known as the New Yardbirds and later as Led Zeppelin.[10] Bonham was reluctant.[11] Plant sent eight telegrams to Bonham’s pub, the “Three Men in a Boat”, in Bloxwich, which were followed by 40 telegrams from Grant. Bonham was also receiving offers from Joe Cocker and Chris Farlowe but he accepted Grant’s offer. Brilliant: They didn’t know where he lived but they knew his local 😃 > **[John Bonham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bonham#Led_Zeppelin)** > > John Henry Bonham (31 May 1948 – 25 September 1980) was an English musician who was the drummer of the rock band Led Zeppelin. Noted for his speed, power, fast single-footed kick drumming, distinctive sound, and feel for groove, he is regarded as one of the greatest and most influential drummers in history. > Bonham was born in 1948 in Redditch, Worcestershire, and took up drums at age 5, receiving a snare drum at age 10 and a full drum set at age 15. He played with multiple local bands both at... ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/158 "2017-03-13T17:03:29Z")
This has been a really fun thread to read. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/159 "2017-03-14T18:59:07Z")
Here’s more fun. _Zeppelin_ all-girl cover band _Zepparella_ and _[When The Levee Breaks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH-_9cwdLug)_. Sumbitch! ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884/160 "2017-03-14T23:50:55Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Wow. Those were educational, **glowacks** , your mileage definitely varies from mine. Indeed it does. The one you linked really doesn’t do anything for me. We like entirely different things about string interpretations of popular music. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/led-zeppelins-kashmir/781884.md?page=9)