# Lee Iacocca rips the auto industry. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815 "2007-04-12T16:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/1 "2007-04-12T16:08:33Z")
Lee Iacocca rips the auto industry in Detroit Free Press today. He also says our political leaders have failed the nation. He says we have a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over a cliff.We have corpoprate gangsters stealing us blind and we can’t even clean up after a hurricane much less build a hybrid car.Where have all the leaders gone. I hardly recognize this country anymore. He suggests building smaller cars and and hiring smarter executives. He says he backed Bush as a favor for his father who was an old friend. He says George Bush prides himself for not changing as the world spins out of control.The president prides himself on being faith based not reality based. If that does’t scare the crap out of you ,I don’t know what will. Well dopers does the huge amount of money execs get still make sense?. Does the crappy leadership sink in after awhile. ? ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/2 "2007-04-12T21:34:57Z")
I’m guessing Lee has a new book to sell, and he’ll be on The Daily Show next week with his golf buddy Snoop Dogg. We knew most of what he says, already, though manny peeples don’t. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/3 "2007-04-12T21:37:19Z")
Yep book is out, but he is turning on his peeps. ---
**Author:** ![titorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@titorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/titorian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/4 "2007-04-12T21:54:45Z")
He became my hero way back when he asked for a government bailout with a promise to repay, and then he did repay. I think that is the sole case for such big bailouts. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/5 "2007-04-12T22:06:50Z")
Link? Cite? Lee is a big reason why the US Auto Industry is in the shitter, so I’ll take this with a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/6 "2007-04-13T00:46:08Z")
He had a chance years ago to steer the U.S. auto industry in new and interesting directions. Nobody today remembers the K cars as any kind of technological marvel, and they weren’t notably fuel efficient. The sole innovative marketing triumph of his era, the minivan, hasn’t proven to be a massive longterm trend in the industry, as today most other makers are abandoning minivan models. The cars that actually had the best reputation from that era from his company, the Colt models, were rebadged Mitsubishis. This promising partnership has since died on the vine. His leadership was vastly overrated. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/7 "2007-04-13T01:40:19Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] Link? Cite? Lee is a big reason why the US Auto Industry is in the shitter, so I’ll take this with a grain of salt. [/QUOTE] Cite this, please. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/8 "2007-04-13T22:08:34Z")
[QUOTE=the raindog] Cite this, please. [/QUOTE] _Mad Magazine_ put it best– > [@](#): > > Union busting, > Profit lusting, > Little Pintos > All combusting. Which sums up his achievements in a nutshell. He fought every technological change/improvement he could, & opposed innovation, improved milage, smaller cars & safety regs throughout the 70’s. Which is exactly the time Japanese cars started their meteoric rise. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/9 "2007-04-13T22:56:29Z")
Have you seen the current IMHO thread: [What’s wrong with the American auto industry?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=416509) ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/10 "2007-04-13T23:04:44Z")
The song “Dats What Is My Iacocca” appeared in a Bloom County Strip. The complete lyric: Union busting, Profit lusting, Little Pintos All combusting. _apple pie and Diet Coke-a Dats what is my Iacocca_ ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/11 "2007-04-14T08:03:10Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Lee Iacocca rips the auto industry in Detroit Free Press today. He also says our political leaders have failed the nation. He says we have a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over a cliff.We have corpoprate gangsters stealing us blind and we can’t even clean up after a hurricane much less build a hybrid car.Where have all the leaders gone. I hardly recognize this country anymore. He suggests building smaller cars and and hiring smarter executives. He says he backed Bush as a favor for his father who was an old friend. He says George Bush prides himself for not changing as the world spins out of control.The president prides himself on being faith based not reality based. If that does’t scare the crap out of you ,I don’t know what will. Well dopers does the huge amount of money execs get still make sense?. Does the crappy leadership sink in after awhile. ? [/QUOTE] Lee Iacoccoa is full of shit. Nothing personal, but he _loved_ big gas guzzlers with power-hungry options. When McNamara released the Falcon (Ford’s “small” car of the late 50’s) Iacoccoa ranted about how plain it was, that nobody could make money on small cars, and that he felt that McNamara was working at cross-purposes to him. His Mustang was purposely designed as the “anti-Falcon”, and it was Lee who turned the classic '64 Mustang into the too-heavy, gas guzzling varieties that came out later. Let’s not forget that the American auto industry started its slow death when he was at the helm of Ford. To quote Halberstam’s _The Reckoning_: > [@](#): > > There was a part of Iacoccoa that was grateful to McNamara, for McNamara had reached down and pulled him up and had greatly accellerated his career. But he had also chafed under McNamara’s caution, his utilitarian automotive instincts, and his curious belief that auto makers had social obligations, such as in the area of safety. > > … Iacoccoa hated the bare, functional character of the Falcon. Customers might buy it, but they added little in the way of options. There’s more, but I don’t want to quote half the book. Let’s be charitable and say the man is wanting to expiate some sins… maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/12 "2007-04-14T10:19:02Z")
[QUOTE=Hello Again] The song “Dats What Is My Iacocca” appeared in a Bloom County Strip. The complete lyric: Union busting, Profit lusting, Little Pintos All combusting. _apple pie and Diet Coke-a Dats what is my Iacocca_ [/QUOTE] I stand corrected on the source. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/13 "2007-04-14T11:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] _Mad Magazine_ put it best– Which sums up his achievements in a nutshell. He fought every technological change/improvement he could, & opposed innovation, improved milage, smaller cars & safety regs throughout the 70’s. Which is exactly the time Japanese cars started their meteoric rise. [/QUOTE] Please tell me I’m being whooshed. You made a fairly bold statement, and you offer me a poem from _Mad Magazine_ as a cite? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/14 "2007-04-14T12:40:30Z")
[QUOTE=JohnT] There’s more, but I don’t want to quote half the book. Let’s be charitable and say the man is wanting to expiate some sins… maybe. [/QUOTE] Or, maybe, he’s somewhat adjusted his position on what the correct strategy is for the automotive market over the last 40 years. The guy hasn’t been at Ford for 30 years, and left Chrysler 15 years ago. Correct me if I’m wrong, but both companies made money while he ran them, unlike what the Big Three are doing today. Successful businessmen implement strategies that coincide with the market’s desires, they don’t try to force their own opinions on the market. Does high exec compensation make sense? If they turn around a bankrupt company like Iacocca did with Chrysler, damn straight it does. If they run your company into the crapper, you wouldn’t be getting a good value if they paid YOU $20M a year to run the company. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/15 "2007-04-14T14:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=the raindog] Please tell me I’m being whooshed. You made a fairly bold statement, and you offer me a poem from _Mad Magazine_ as a cite? :dubious: [/QUOTE] Semi-whooshed. I thought that Iacocca’s role in the Pinto (explody-explody) was **so famous** that it didn’t really need support. [http://www.fordpinto.com/blowup.htm](http://www.fordpinto.com/blowup.htm) > [@](#): > > Before production however, Ford engineers discovered a major flaw in the cars design. In nearly all rear-end crash test collisions the Pinto’s fuel system would rupture extremely easily. Because assembly-line machinery was already tooled when engineers found this defect, top Ford officials decided to manufacture the car anyway, exploding gas tank and all, even though Ford owned the patent on a much safer gas tank. Safety was not a major concern to Ford at the time of the development of the Pinto. Lee Iacocca, who was in charge of the development of the Pinto, had specifications for the design of the car that were uncompromisable. These specifications were that “the Pinto was not to weigh an ounce over 2,000 pounds and not cost a cent over $2,000.” Any modifications even if they did provide extra safety for the customer that brought the car closer to the Iacocca’s limits was rejected. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/16 "2007-04-14T14:35:18Z")
That and if IIRC, Ford decided that it would just be cheaper to pay off the lawsuits resulting from any deaths in such accidents. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/17 "2007-04-14T14:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] Or, maybe, he’s somewhat adjusted his position on what the correct strategy is for the automotive market over the last 40 years. The guy hasn’t been at Ford for 30 years, and left Chrysler 15 years ago. Correct me if I’m wrong, but both companies made money while he ran them, unlike what the Big Three are doing today. Successful businessmen implement strategies that coincide with the market’s desires, they don’t try to force their own opinions on the market. Does high exec compensation make sense? If they turn around a bankrupt company like Iacocca did with Chrysler, damn straight it does. If they run your company into the crapper, you wouldn’t be getting a good value if they paid YOU $20M a year to run the company. [/QUOTE] Yes, but when you’re complaining about _Robert McNamara’s_ high moral standards, you’re not exactly speaking from an exalted position. 😉 It is no secret that Iacoccoa liked big cars, hated small cars, and his handling of the Pinto shows it. He had no respect for the project and put on design, weight, and cost limitations that, even at the time were unattainable. It was pretty much designed to fail, and fail it did. Safety was not a concern of Iacoccoa’s, so much so that by the time he left Ford, 36% of Americans believed that Ford cars were dangerous… compared to 6% for GM and less for Chrysler. (_Wheels for the World_, Douglas Brinkley, page 674). ---
**Author:** ![zenith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zenith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zenith)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/18 "2007-04-14T18:57:16Z")
From post-WW2 to the Iacocca era, Ford’s presidency was a revolving door. Nothing was done that wasn’t vetted by Chairman Henry. Iacocca had barely settled in as president when the Pinto was being planned. Obviously, Henry wanted the Pinto gas tank that way and Iacocca, who had yet to grow a set, let him have his way. A fuss raised by Iacocca would have resulted in the same gas tank being installed at the behest of yet another Ford president. As to the K-cars, they were good cars with the Chrysler-built 2.2, but the 2.6 litre imported from Mitsu was a junky oil burner with a troublesome carb.Here, in an area where snow is shoveled with a saltshaker, K-cars and early minivans held off rusting better than most vehicles of the era. The trouble with the minivan is that Iacocca’s successors let it get fat, wallowy, and clumsy. I’ve owned three and the '84 Voyager, a first-year model built in an era when “smart people” never bought a first year Detroit vehicle, was by far the best overall. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/19 "2007-04-14T21:03:34Z")
Iacocca didn’t exactly invent the mini-van. When he was at Ford, there were tons of studies that they did which showed consumers wanted something like a mini-van, Ford even drew plans up for one called the “Mini-Max.” Henry Ford II, having turned into the same kind of prick his father did in his later years refused to let it be built. (According to Iacocca’s autobiography Henry did the same with the Ford Tempo, and it wasn’t until years later that they actually built the things.) When Iacocca went to Chrysler, he took his knowledge of the Mini-Max with him and the company build that. Don’t forget that prior to Iacocca coming to Chrysler, the previous head of the company had the “brilliant” idea of firing the engineering department to make a fatter bottom line. Iacocca had some good ideas, but then he got a swelled head and Chrysler started floundering again at about the time he left. He was running an electric bicycle company after he left Chrysler. Presumably he’s retired from that now. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815/20 "2007-04-14T22:19:34Z")
[QUOTE=JohnT] Lee Iacoccoa is full of shit. Nothing personal, but he _loved_ big gas guzzlers with power-hungry options. When McNamara released the Falcon (Ford’s “small” car of the late 50’s) Iacoccoa ranted about how plain it was, that nobody could make money on small cars, and that he felt that McNamara was working at cross-purposes to him. His Mustang was purposely designed as the “anti-Falcon”, and it was Lee who turned the classic '64 Mustang into the too-heavy, gas guzzling varieties that came out later. Let’s not forget that the American auto industry started its slow death when he was at the helm of Ford. To quote Halberstam’s _The Reckoning_: There’s more, but I don’t want to quote half the book. Let’s be charitable and say the man is wanting to expiate some sins… maybe. [/QUOTE] Well, to be quite frank, Iococca’s greates triumph at FORD was the MUSTANG-which was a flashy styled body on a Falcon chassis! The original MUSTANG was a well like car, but it contained numerous design and safety flaws: -it had a gas tank that was integral with the trunk floor-so rear-end crashed led to fires and many deaths. -the pillarless hardtop version of the MUSTANG had too few welds and not enough reinforcing-so it rattled and shook when you hit a bump -the MUSTANG was poorly rust-proofed-many of them were swiss cheese inside of a year. But Lee Iococca could sell cars! The MUSTANG made a TON of cash for FORD; despite the poor design and build quality.Henry Ford II fired him, because Iococca was too self-promoting. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lee-iacocca-rips-the-auto-industry/399815.md?page=2)