# "Left Behind" for KIDS? Ewwww... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 30, 2001, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255 "2001-07-30T18:17:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/41 "2001-08-01T16:08:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*I see what you are saying Ultra but look at abstact art all that stuff looks really like a junk yard trash but people pay top dollar for it. > > Or say look at movies what the stupid academy says has nothing to do with how the general populace likes it. So who is to say the academy is better at judging films than the general public(especially since “Where Brother Art Thou?” didn’t win anything. 😉 > > Anyway you see what I am saying? I think the books were great I have read all of them and anybody that I suggest them to(Christian or not) reads onr they end of reading them all too. So they can’t be as horribly written as people on this thread have said because heck they were a best seller. \*\* There’s a bit of difference between what John Quotidian would consider good art and what critics would consider good art, as you have pointed out. A lot of this has to do with the different criteria that the two groups apply to artistic evaluations. People here probably tend more to the critic’s viewpoint; I think it’s in this sense that people are claiming the Left Behind series aren’t very well-written. I’m almost to the point where I want to pick one up and read a chapter or two just to assess the writing style. If this happens, I’ll come back to this thread with an evaluation. (And in a complete red herring, I happen to rather like some abstract art, but that’s a whole 'nother thread.) ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/42 "2001-08-01T16:26:06Z")
Ultra, I think that would be great you would give em(Left Behind books) a read. But the books really get better after the first one. You need to read at least two. Oh, and I like some abstract art too. I was just using it as an example. Some of it is pretty far out(as in cool). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Palandine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/958977/32.png) [@Palandine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palandine)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/43 "2001-08-01T16:38:11Z")
Hi Bill, I can’t speak to the version for kids. I hope they’ve toned it down a bit. However, when I’m getting ready for work in the morning I tend to listen to an evangelical Protestant radio station. I’m VERY happy in my own Christian faith, but I’m also interested in what various Protestant denominations believe and why they believe those things. Anyway, last summer this station would play the audio book version of Left Behind every Friday morning, and I listened. When read as a radio drama, it gained a little of the passion it lacks on the printed page. What bothered me, though, is that Mr. LaHaye and Mr. Jenkins got so many of their facts casually wrong. I’m a Catholic, and I take that very seriously, but the moment where they had the Pope saying all religions are basically the same just had me erupting in laughter, and somehow I don’t think that’s the point. I found Left Behind to be subtly anti-Catholic from start to finish. I suppose that’s partly because we don’t accept the notion of the Rapture (which as far as I can tell from research didn’t gain huge popularity in evangelical Protestantism until the 1800s), but I would prefer any anti-Catholicism I encounter to be out there and in your face–people like Dave Hunt and Ian Paisley and Jack Chick–rather than subtle. Generally people can see the hate and error in people like Hunt and Paisley and Chick, but they may miss it in well-spoken men like LaHaye and Jenkins. Personally, to get back on topic, I would find that stuff scary for children, and I’d definitely read it first to make sure the books got the theology right, but when it comes down to it I doubt it’s any more scarring than Harry Potter or Stephen King or the VC Andrews novels I got my hands on as a kid. All kids end up getting scarred by something…I’d just be wary of making Christianity into a scary, get-out-of-Hell-free card, rather than a relationship of love and trust. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/44 "2001-08-01T16:51:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*Ultra, > > I think that would be great you would give em(Left Behind books) a read. But the books really get better after the first one. You need to read at least two.\*\* Since they’re all written by the same authors, it seems very unlikely that the writing styles would vary enough to make it necessary to read more than a chapter or two. I’m not going to promise to read them just yet, but if I think they’re good enough, I might read more than one. Just don’t hold your breath or your bladder waiting for my conversion as a result of what I read. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/45 "2001-08-01T17:01:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > **Well, I don’t see how it’s any more manipulative/inaccurate than, say, the cartoon “Captain Planet”.** That’s because everyone with an IQ greater than six **knows** that “Captain Planet” is pap. Its only reason for existing is to satisfy federal requirements for “educational programming.” I mean, Whoopi Goldberg as Gaia? _What were they thinking?_😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/46 "2001-08-01T20:46:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*You’re right they don’t have too. They just use the ole trick of saying it is a fact. > > … > > Oh I don’t know? How about the text books? \*\* WB, correct me if I’m wrong, but the last time you voiced such vehement sentiments about evolution, you stated that you hadn’t studied evolution at all, and that you saw no reason to do so. Some time later, I remember you stating that you had changed your mind and that now you did, in fact, think it was important to study evolution before shooting off uninformed opinions on such an important topic. So, what have you read since then? How have you educated yourself about evolution? On what do you base your opinion that evolutionists support their opinions on nothing more than the assertion that it is fact? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/47 "2001-08-01T21:05:27Z")
Ben, In all fairness I was just stating the other side of the coin from what rjung said in his/her op. It really is the same thing because I got the impression that rjung has not read the kids series so how rjung comment on it? Also I have a free get out of talking to Ben about evolution card from czarcasm on this thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/48 "2001-08-01T21:24:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*In all fairness I was just stating the other side of the coin from what rjung said in his/her op. It really is the same thing because I got the impression that rjung has not read the kids series so how rjung comment on it? \*\* Based on your criticism of rjung, can we assume, then, that your statements about evolution are the result of careful study? Can we assume likewise about your statements regarding the UN? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Also I have a free get out of talking to Ben about evolution card from czarcasm on this thread. 😃 \*\* Czarcasm wasn’t speaking as a moderator, and anyway, I’m not trying to start a C/E debate. I’m just asking you what you’ve read about evolution. If he states, as a moderator, that we can’t discuss your readings here, I’ll be glad to start a thread wherever he suggests. Anyway, WB, you should know that it’s impolite to dodge questions. I asked you a simple question: in educating yourself about evolution, what sources have you turned to? Why should that be such an awkward question for you? Why can’t you just tell us what you’ve been reading? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/49 "2001-08-01T21:26:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > \*\* you did, in fact, think it was important to study evolution before shooting off uninformed opinions on such an important topic. \*\* Ouch! That should read “rather than” instead of “before.” -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/50 "2001-08-01T22:36:52Z")
[speaking as a M_O_D_E_R_A_T_O_R for those who didn’t get the point last time]Even if you thought that I was not serious with my last post, you should know that this is NOT the forum to discuss evolutionism vs. creationism, or religion vs. other(or non) religion, or other weighty issues. This is a forum to discuss your likes and dislikes for the “Left Behind” for Kids book series. There will be no points, counter-points, last points, or rebuttals to previous _off-topic_ statements made here.[/speaking as a M_O_D_E_R_A_T_O_R for those who didn’t get the point last time] ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/51 "2001-08-01T23:42:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*You know I could turn that around. I find the “fiction” books on “evolution for kids?” just as “ewwwwwww” too. \*\* Actually, good books for kids covering evolution are in scarce supply. ANd they are informative rather than fearmongering. One good one though: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1885593368/qid=996709260/sr=1-1/ref=sc\_b\_1/002-1104178-4884843](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1885593368/qid=996709260/sr=1-1/ref=sc_b_1/002-1104178-4884843) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/52 "2001-08-02T01:01:08Z")
wishbone wrote sometime yesterday: > [@](#): > > I can’t wait until they come out with action figures so I can superglue a Nicholae Carpathia to my dashboard. I am unfamiliar with the details of the Left Behind series through lack of interest. However, I am trying to develop designs for _Pilgrim’s Progress_ action figures and playsets. The Giant Despair will be a blockbuster, and the Slough of Despond playset should get the slime/gakk market… ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/53 "2001-08-02T02:38:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrFidelius \* > \*\*wishbone wrote sometime yesterday: > > > [@](#): > > > > I can’t wait until they come out with action figures so I can superglue a Nicholae Carpathia to my dashboard. > > I am unfamiliar with the details of the Left Behind series through lack of interest. However, I am trying to develop designs for _Pilgrim’s Progress_ action figures and playsets. > > The Giant Despair will be a blockbuster, and the Slough of Despond playset should get the slime/gakk market… \*\* This is an artist’s depidtion of _Left Behind’s_ [Nicholae Carpathia](http://www.leftbehind.com/images/wallpaper/640x480/nicolae.jpg), the Anti-Christ who takes over the world. I personally feel that the man looks no more evil than a well-dressed Billy Idol…wait a second…it IS Billy Idol! Not really a great design for a action figure. BTW have you seen the figures for _Sleepy Hollow_? The detail is absolutely [amazing](http://www.aboyd.com/products/mcfarlane/mcf14401full.jpg). All the McFarlane figures anr nothing less than incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/54 "2001-08-02T03:25:00Z")
I’ve not seen the children’s version of the _Left Behind_ books but I did read the first in the series, just to get an idea of what all the shouting is about. To respond to **Wildest Bill’s** question, why does everyone here consider them so bad? **WB** , I like to read. I thoroughly enjoy a well crafted tale with interesting characters. There’s none of that in the first book of the _LB_ series. I’m sorry, but if the series can’t draw me in within the first book (especially at 8 dollars per book) I see no reason to get the others. As for the writing, let me count the ways: 1. No character development. What do we know about the main characters beyond the basic descriptions given to us when they’re first introduced? We have an airline pilot, his daughter, a globe trotting ace reporter, the Anti-Christ and a stewardess. Beyond those basic descriptions, **WHO** are they? What are their motivations? Their backgrounds? We’re given precious little. There’s no empathy with them. Why should I care about them? 2. Plotting or lack thereof. Even before I opened the book, I knew what was going to happen. There’s no suspense, no sense of wonder or forboding. When the AntiChrist is first introduced, I knew exactly who he was. In our culture, even Non-Christians are familiar with the “Revelation” scenario. This book makes no attempt to present it in some interesting way. We start off with the Rapture, but then go on for (what seems like endless pages) wondering what happens next. Since it’s not hard to guess who the AntiChrist is, the end scene is almost anticlimatic, we know what’s going to happen. If I’d written this book, I would have put the Rapture at the very end, rather than the beginning. Then the book could be filled with clues and discussion about whether this was truly the “End Times” ending with the ultimate proof, the Rapture Itself. Then, in the course of the book, we could get to know the characters and empathise with them and experience their horror when they’ve really been **LEFT BEHIND**. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/55 "2001-08-02T03:47:14Z")
It’s not such a bad series. Although the LB Kids. . . gahhh, I read one of them and will never pick up another one for fear of being contaminated. Did that make sense? I don’t like them was the general idea I was trying to get across. I just pointed out “Captain Planet” to show that not just fundie Christians target the little 'uns. And I’m convinced that that had subliminal messages because even though I (and every other kid I knew) hated it, we still watched it. It was kinda scary. . . ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/56 "2001-08-02T16:23:30Z")
WB, what do you think of the Narnia books, as compared to the LB series? Or have you read Lewis’ “Space Trilogy”? If so, what did you think? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/57 "2001-08-02T16:41:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > **I just pointed out “Captain Planet” to show that not just fundie Christians target the little 'uns.** _Everybody_ targets the little 'uns – it’s always preferable to catch them when they’re young. In any good bookstore, the children’s section is sure to be filled with juvenile Bibles, Christian primers (_What is Heaven?_), Jewish primers (_My First Channukah_), cartoon characters, so on and so forth. Heck, even the NFL(!!!) has “My First” reading books out there… (Though I still haven’t been able to find a “My First Evolution” book anywhere. Does this qualify as discrimination? 🙂 ) In any event, yes, everyone targets the kiddies out there. But I think we can all agree that there’s a difference between socially beneficial, non-discriminatory stuff like _Captain Planet_ (who doesn’t benefit if kids learn to recycle plastics and pick up trash?) and fear-mongering, divisive paranoia like _Left Behind_ (which, at its core, asserts that those not caught in the Rapture – Jews, Catholics, Muslems, atheists, etc. – are inferior to the folks who did). ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/58 "2001-08-02T16:58:57Z")
" . . . We have an airline pilot, his daughter, a globe trotting ace reporter, the Anti-Christ and a stewardess." —Dammit, now I have the theme song from “Gilligan’s Island” stuck in my head . . . ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/59 "2001-08-02T17:10:15Z")
Bill, if you want some really well written, fleshed out, interesting and a great exciting read-try Timothy Zahn’s Star Wars trilogy, Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, and The Last Command. Mara Jade kicks serious ass. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255/60 "2001-08-02T17:59:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*In any event, yes, everyone targets the kiddies out there. But I think we can all agree that there’s a difference between socially beneficial, non-discriminatory stuff like _Captain Planet_ (who doesn’t benefit if kids learn to recycle plastics and pick up trash?) and fear-mongering, divisive paranoia like _Left Behind_ (which, at its core, asserts that those not caught in the Rapture – Jews, Catholics, Muslems, atheists, etc. – are inferior to the folks who did). \*\* I suppose everyone but me can agree. Captain Planet was this subtle new-agey/neo-pagan thing that went beyond “recycling is good” to “Here is an earth goddess, and when you mix together the five elements air/earth/water/fire/spirit in the shape of a pentacle, then good things happen.” And, I’m afraid the rest of my response belongs more in great debates than in IMHO, so I’m stopping now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-behind-for-kids-ewwww/74255.md?page=4)