# Left out of the loop, and it hurts **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358 "2012-01-31T23:55:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/41 "2012-02-01T14:50:23Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > There is almost \*nothing \*in pop culture that is helpful or useful . . . Maybe Jan Morris’ memoirs, _Conundrum_, which are about 40 years old by now. Have you seen [Gen Silent](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1605721/), **Eve**? It’s about LGBT Elders, not young people, but I really loved it, and it opened my eyes to a whole bunch of issues and barriers that even I, a LGBT friendly-but-straight-myself person, had never even considered. Might be helpful, seeing the struggles of people who have been, there, done that, and are now able to look back on it with the hindsight of age. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/42 "2012-02-01T15:37:19Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Have you seen [Gen Silent](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1605721/), **Eve**? It’s about LGBT Elders, not young people, but I really loved it, and it opened my eyes to a whole bunch of issues and barriers that even I, a LGBT friendly-but-straight-myself person, had never even considered. Might be helpful, seeing the struggles of people who have been, there, done that, and are now able to look back on it with the hindsight of age. Christ, am I \*in \*it? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/43 "2012-02-01T15:40:06Z")
Maybe s/he didn’t think it would be a big deal. More of a “you look different… have you done something with your facial hair?” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/44 "2012-02-01T15:43:52Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Maybe s/he didn’t think it would be a big deal. More of a “you look different… have you done something with your facial hair?” Whole grain. ---
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/45 "2012-02-01T15:52:32Z")
Hello, here is what I am thinking. I can understand how the OP feels. I am male but my oldest friend is female and we are very close. She has been hurt when I left her out of some things in my life because to her mind it showed that she trusts me more than I trust her. When I kept my health issues to myself it was because I was trying not to weigh her down with too much of my crap but to her that was pushing her away. It led to a rough patch in our friendship but we got over it. Also we set up some rules in our friendship such as promising that if either of us was ever in the hospital for whatever reason to immediately tell the other. OP I hope you and your friend can reconcile. Please try to remember that she (he?) is having a rough time. Maybe if you focus on the fact that you love him you and want him to be happy andat peace you can find a way to hurt less. Good luck to you. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/46 "2012-02-01T17:15:06Z")
[Amazon link](http://www.amazon.com/Luna-Julie-Anne-Peters/dp/0316733695): This is a truly sensitive treatment of the obstacles a young transperson faces, and I wish it were required reading for secondary ed. Not because transitioning is topical, but because some of the changing and growing that occurs during adolescence is a solitary endeavor, and the opinions of peers are not always welcome or necessary. Some things you just have to muscle through on your own, and it’s no insult to one’s peers. Give this book a try, **MIS** , because it is young adult fiction it will be a quick read. And it may make a nice gift for your friend, to show that you’ve made an attempt to relate. And congratulations to your friend on his metamorphosis. We don’t all get an opportunity to experience both the male and female world; those who do have an unique perspective on humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/47 "2012-02-01T17:17:53Z")
Based on this thread by the OP ([I'm hoping I can make it through the school year without another mental breakdown - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=640471)) I could see the person not wanting to either confide in or burden him/her with this. More drama probably wouldn’t help during the transition. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/48 "2012-02-01T17:24:50Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Based on this thread by the OP ([I'm hoping I can make it through the school year without another mental breakdown - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=640471)) I could see the person not wanting to either confide in or burden him/her with this. More drama probably wouldn’t help during the transition. _Ooooooh_. I think maybe your friend doesn’t want to burden you with his (“_his_,” get used to that) problems while you are having problems of your own. Maybe he is just being considerate and walking on eggshells. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/49 "2012-02-01T17:38:40Z")
Sorry that your bummed OP; however, it does read like your friend dropped an awful lot of hints about his situation that you neglected to pick up on - perhaps your personal drama contributed to your lack of awareness of his issues. When I’ve had a major upheaval in my life it’s my drama free friends that I choose to share with and get support from. Those friends that are already barely making it through the day, I elect not to share as much with. In some relationships you’re the talker and in some you’re the listener – your friend has decided to be the listener in your relationship which seems reasonable given your other worries. Regardless, the issues are his and if he didn’t feel that you were in a place mentally to support him, that’s his prerogative. Sorry that you got your feelings hurt, however, this really isn’t about you. If you want to be a good friend, be supportive and try to get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/50 "2012-02-01T17:39:10Z")
The his/her was in reference to the OP - I couldn’t figure what gender the OP was. Sorry to confuse. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/51 "2012-02-01T18:04:19Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The his/her was in reference to the OP - I couldn’t figure what gender the OP was. Sorry to confuse. Oh, I know–I meant the OP needs to start saying “he.” ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/52 "2012-02-01T18:59:28Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I find it’s the people I am closest to can be the hardest ones to share important things with. With my acquaintances, it’s all cheer and bluster. But with my truest friends, sharing parts of me feels very, very real. And there are parts of me that I’m not fully ready to understand in that way. Sometimes you need to go on these little journeys on your own, before you are ready to face the music with your friends. > > I think you’ll find as time goes on that friendships grow apart and come together naturally. There are always things shared and things left unsaid with friends, and with time you become more comfortable and aware of these things and their purpose. > > That’s the biggest steaming load of essentialist BS I’ve ever heard, and has almost nothing to do with how men and women (outside of wacky romantic comedies) operate. If the OPs friend is not sharing, it’s probably because the OPs friend is a private person about some things or has some hangup or something, not some cockeyed theory about what a man imagines a woman must think like. Sometimes a person can just be private about something without it having to turn into “men are from Mars, women are from Venus.” I believe it’s a centerpiece of modern feminist theory that women individually and women in groups have a different way of “knowing” and interacting than men do. The OP is dismayed that her (now male) buddy didn’t share and discuss this intimate decision before going ahead and doing it. A group of men with otherwise close relationships will not expect intimate sharing re big decisions. A group of women will expect it on some level as a quip pro quo for _their_ personal sharing. This difference in group dynamics is not good, bad or indifferent it just is. If the OP is dealing with someone who is (in effect) mentally a man, the non-sharing is not something she should take all that personally, and she’s obviously taking it very personally. As for dismissing the observation that men and women have different ways of interacting in same sex friendships, and different expectations in those relationships I don’t what to tell you other than open your eyes. There are differences in those contexts whether you like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/53 "2012-02-01T20:17:43Z")
OP, I think your reaction is normal. It’s isn’t the best reaction, or the most selfless, or the kindest, but I do think it’s normal. You did the right thing by posting it here, and not saying it to your friend. Everyone has selfish feelings. We all _wish_ we could be the person who doesn’t immediately think, “How will this effect _me_?” when hearing a friend’s life changing news, but I think if we are all honest with ourselves, we can admit that’s our true first reaction more often than we’re proud of. But, now that you’ve indulged that part of yourself, i hope you realize that it’s your friend who has the problem now. I’m sure he feels very nervous about your reaction. He knows he left you out of the loop, and I’m sure that makes him feel frightened. I think the best thing you can do now is sit down with him\* and explain that this was surprising to you, but you fully support him. And then hush, and listen to what your friend wants to say. If you love him as you say, this is the right thing to do. Good luck. \*Yes, _him_. Practice it. Make it part of your inner dialog. Have fake conversations in the shower where you talk to him and always use the right name and pronoun. And if you screw it up in person (and you will) say “I’m sorry” and correct yourself. **NOT** “I’m sorry, but…” JUST “I’m sorry” and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/54 "2012-02-01T21:19:58Z")
> [@hermette](#): > > I basically came in here to say this. Maybe it was easier for zir to tell people zie didn’t care about so much as a test, because if they freaked out, it wouldn’t hurt as much as telling the people zie \*did \*value and getting rejected. Oh, for fuck’s sake. If you must have a gender neutral pronoun, use “they”. And so: Maybe it was easier for them to tell people they didn’t care about so much as a test, because if they freaked out, it wouldn’t hurt as much as telling the people they \*did \*value and getting rejected. English already has singular gender neutral pronouns, and has had since the days of Shakespeare. So no need to invent synthetic ones. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358/55 "2012-02-01T21:50:38Z")
We don’t fucking need gender neutral pronouns anyway. The OP’s friend is a HE. The End. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-out-of-the-loop-and-it-hurts/611358.md?page=2)