# Left wing antisemitism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985 "2011-05-15T14:03:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/181 "2011-05-16T19:43:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This has not remotely demonstrated. Then you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. Wouldn’t you agree that using racial slurs to refer to Jews is anti-Semitic? Isn’t blaming “the Jews” for the current economic crisis anti-Semitic.? Isn’t claiming that American Jews are more loyal to Israel then to America anti-Semitic? Sorry, but you’ve chosen another hill to die on. When polls find that self-identified Democrats are twice as likely as self-identified Republicans to blame the current economic crisis on “the Jews” then it’s asinine to claim that anti-Semitism is the exclusive province of the right-wing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/182 "2011-05-16T23:25:28Z")
Meh, it is more asinine to insist that a minority makes a movement, also it is still ridiculous to ignore that not all democrats are liberals. Anyhow, as **Fang** reported, it is more clear to me that religion is more likely to blame for the antisemitism in Spain than a right wing / left wing pumped up division. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/183 "2011-05-17T01:38:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > When polls find that self-identified Democrats are twice as likely as self-identified Republicans to blame the current economic crisis on “the Jews” then it’s asinine to claim that anti-Semitism is the exclusive province of the right-wing. I got to see this one. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/184 "2011-05-17T02:00:50Z")
Yeah, I’d like to see that cite too. At first glance (if true), I’d reckon it’s because there’s a consistent small sliver of people who will _always_ blame “the Jews”–but presently those among them who _don’t_ identify as Democrats have somebody else they’re blaming for things right now. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/185 "2011-05-17T02:46:29Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > To clarify my own position, I will say that as much of an atheist I am, I am a _Jewish_ atheist. You have to define your terms. Being critical of a policy of occupation is not relevant to the religious beliefs of the occupiers. Jewish and Semitic refer to religion. Israeli refers to a socio-political system that occupies a land that it shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/186 "2011-05-17T04:36:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t. > Militant nationalism isn’t a leftist trait. Hmm…I’d say national interest and unity (read: social equity) above the individual\* is\* a leftist trait. Stick “militant” in there and you have yourself a socialist dictator. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/187 "2011-05-17T04:38:25Z")
What of all the leftist independence movments in the former colonies. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/188 "2011-05-17T04:48:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yes. But it has quite a bit to do with ethnicity.Look it up, exactly like I had it. see for yourselfOf course not. There are, for instance, Black, Indian and Chinese Jews. But it is ethnicist.It’s not optional. “Coloured” is the proper name of an ethnicity. Deliberately mis-spelling it is like typing “Joos” for "Jews"He’s not redefining it. He’s using it in the same sense the ICC and the UN do. I don’t agree that Israel fits the definition, but it’s not because the oppressed class/es is/are an ethnicity/ies. It’s because the level of discrimination doesn’t amount to an attempt at complete segregation, IMO.See, that’s the goalpost-moving we’re talking about. The context was Israel. Not The Middle East or Asia, but the one country of Israel. Pointing to equity differences across national boundaries is a complete _non sequitur_. > > I’ll skip over the South African stuff as per mod request, but: > _Opportunity of access_ to the same things.The language of politics has moved on quite a bit since the Revolution. Trying to argue different puts you in the same camp as those who argue that “liberal” still means "libertarian"I’d wager 90% of the US is Right of where I think the Centre is.I’ve made my point - there are _reasons_ people say Israel is an apartheid state, it’s not just a vendetta against Jews, as you alleged.Bit quick to pat yourself, there, don’t you think? Please stop saying I said things I never have. It’s really offensive and at some point, probably against rules. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/189 "2011-05-17T04:55:25Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What of all the leftist independence movments in the former colonies. This ‘left’ thing is just like ‘socialism’. There’s a difference between _socialism_ on a controlled economic scale and _socialism_ as a political thing, e.g., utopian society. MOST of the time, it ends up being a “government control for the good of the people” versus “let people be prudent themselves” argument…it never works out so nicely, though. I suppose Stalin was closer to the original concept of left, libertie, socialism, whatever, than Hussein. Anyway, you can take that word “left”, think of all the possible derivatives, and then line up a lot of candidates under the same definition. Hitler may have been a fascist dictator, but it doesn’t mean he didn’t subscribe to some elements (economics and [militant] nationalism) of a socialist movement. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/190 "2011-05-17T05:00:50Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > I got to see this one. > > Cite? Here you go. [http://bostonreview.net/BR34.3/malhotra\_margalit.php](http://bostonreview.net/BR34.3/malhotra_margalit.php) I posted it earlier and yes it is pretty shocking. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/191 "2011-05-17T05:01:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > actual, racist antisemitism does not exist on the American political left, and not really even on the mainstream political right. It basically just exists as a fringe-right skinhead/Klan type thing. My jaw seriously just dropped. Do you live under a rock?! ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/192 "2011-05-17T05:08:15Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Here you go. > > [http://bostonreview.net/BR34.3/malhotra\_margalit.php](http://bostonreview.net/BR34.3/malhotra_margalit.php) > > I posted it earlier and yes it is pretty shocking. Hm. I’d like to see the actual breakdown of data (if they have it), like what specific question, people target, income, region, whatever. My wild guess here is that the blame on Jews for the economic crisis stems from the myth that big business is controlled by Jews. So it may not be, “Jew are responsible for the economic crisis” as a thought one comes up with on his own, but rather, **when asked** a push-poll Q, they think, “Well, there\* are\* a lot of Jews in big business” or some such. I do see the “look at all the tax $ we spend on Israel’s war machine and now we’re in Iraq/Afghanistan/etc” type arguments a lot…from the lefty left (per U.S. version of left). I saw this: > [@](#): > > Are Democrats simply more likely to “blame everything” thus casting doubt on whether the anti-Jewish attitudes are real? Not at all. We also asked how much “individuals who took out loans and mortgages they could not afford” were to blame on the same five-point scale. In this case, Democrats were less likely than Republicans to assign moderate or greater blame. except in order to take out a loan or mortgage you can’t afford, you have to be in a certain income/credit bracket in the first place. So that supports my theory of the little guy blaming the big guy (and the big guy is seen as Jews to enough that it’s a concern). ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/193 "2011-05-17T06:07:36Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Here you go. > > [http://bostonreview.net/BR34.3/malhotra\_margalit.php](http://bostonreview.net/BR34.3/malhotra_margalit.php) > > I posted it earlier and yes it is pretty shocking. Wow. Its the overall figure that’s most surprising to me. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/194 "2011-05-17T10:54:20Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Hmm…I’d say national interest and unity (read: social equity) above the individual\* is\* a leftist trait. You’d be wrong, or at least your wording is so vague it can’t really be mapped onto the poiltical spectrum. Leftists put “national interest” about the individual? That’s not my experience. I’d say they might do that on some issues, but right-wingers do on other issues, and probably more of them. I agree people on the left tend to place a higher priority on “social equity,” but that’s not the same thing as “unity” (they’re not even similar). > [@](#): > > Stick “militant” in there and you have yourself a socialist dictator. “Militant national interest” makes a leftist dictatorship? Not at all. That’s consistent across a lot of dictatorships. If you have militant-ly enforced social equity, you may have a leftist dictatorshpi. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/195 "2011-05-17T13:10:52Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Here you go. > > [http://bostonreview.net/BR34.3/malhotra\_margalit.php](http://bostonreview.net/BR34.3/malhotra_margalit.php) > > I posted it earlier and yes it is pretty shocking. People around here tend to forget how many working class “white guys” (for lack of a better term) are Democrats. This came up with Obama during the primary (OMG! Democrats can be racist!), and we’re seeing it here, too. Note how the numbers skew when they are broken down by education. Now, I think a good case can be made that those folks aren’t meaningfully part of “the left”, since there are quite a few conservative Democrats, but it’s hard to know for sure without looking at how the same folks feel about a wide range of political topics. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/196 "2011-05-17T14:02:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > People around here tend to forget how many working class “white guys” (for lack of a better term) are Democrats. This came up with Obama during the primary (OMG! Democrats can be racist!), and we’re seeing it here, too. Note how the numbers skew when they are broken down by education. > > Now, I think a good case can be made that those folks aren’t meaningfully part of “the left”, since there are quite a few conservative Democrats, but it’s hard to know for sure without looking at how the same folks feel about a wide range of political topics. Well, for starters, I’m not sure why you think that working-class “white guys” are more likely to be anti-Semitic than working-class “black guys”. I’ve certainly met more than a few black people who made it very clear they had nothing but contempt for Jews. Moreover, if the people you’re referring to are “conservative” it’s only in reference to some social issues. On economic issues they’re definitely more left-wing than most of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/197 "2011-05-17T14:09:40Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Criticism of Irael =/= anti-Semitism Very true. But conversely there ARE anti-Semites who disguise (however thinly) their anti-Semitism as criticism of Israel. For at least some segment of people, saying “I’m not anti-Jewish, I’m just anti-Israel” is roughly the same sort of cover as someone saying “Some of my best friends are black”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/198 "2011-05-17T14:10:50Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > But conversely there ARE anti-Semites who disguise (however thinly) their anti-Semitism as criticism of Israel. For at least some segment of people, saying “I’m not anti-Jewish, I’m just anti-Israel” is roughly the same sort of cover as someone saying “Some of my best friends are black”. True. One of the common giveaways is that these people start by talking about Israel and then switch to talking about Jews. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/199 "2011-05-17T14:45:55Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Well, for starters, I’m not sure why you think that working-class “white guys” are more likely to be anti-Semitic than working-class “black guys”. I’ve certainly met more than a few black people who made it very clear they had nothing but contempt for Jews. Good point. I should not have extrapolated solely from the demographic who voted for Hillary over Obama because of Obama’s race. The pool of potentially anti-semitic Democrats is much larger than the pool of potentially racist Democrats. > [@](#): > > Moreover, if the people you’re referring to are “conservative” it’s only in reference to some social issues. On economic issues they’re definitely more left-wing than most of the US. Could be, but the poll cited doesn’t give us that information. If I had to guess, I’d say they were more likely to be populist than leftist. But I’m open to being corrected if someone has some actual data. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/200 "2011-05-17T15:32:24Z")
I think another element is the fact that many on the left see support of Israel -and by extension, sympahthy for Jews - as a right-wing position, and thus position themselves in the opposite cornerr on a partisan basis. I blame the Republicans for that, actually; they made my country a wedge issue, something it hadn’t been until recent years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985.md?page=11)