# Left wing antisemitism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985 "2011-05-15T14:03:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/281 "2011-05-19T02:04:08Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Not to mention that Begin also destroyed Iraq’s nuclear reactor. He thought it was a threat to Israel, so he had it bombed to smithereens. Could you imagine how something like that would play out today? Haha, yeah, I think something like that DID play out recently…called the Iraq War. Pot, Kettle. At least the Israelis were on target. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/282 "2011-05-19T02:04:38Z")
OK, to be fair, I don’t think that Cornell West could be called an anti-Semite just based on the quote given in that link. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/283 "2011-05-19T02:24:48Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Not to mention that Begin also destroyed Iraq’s nuclear reactor. He thought it was a threat to Israel, so he had it bombed to smithereens. Could you imagine how something like that would play out today? > **[Stuxnet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet)** > > Stuxnet is a malicious computer worm first uncovered on June 17, 2010, and thought to have been in development since at least 2005. Stuxnet targets supervisory control and data acquisition (SCADA) systems and is believed to be responsible for causing substantial damage to the Iran nuclear program after it was first installed on a computer at the Natanz Nuclear Facility in 2009. Although neither the United States nor Israel has openly admitted responsibility, multiple independent news org Stuxne... ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/284 "2011-05-19T02:31:50Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > OK, to be fair, I don’t think that Cornell West could be called an anti-Semite just based on the quote given in that link. He is anti-Israel (well, depending on the political stunt of the day), radical on all accounts, makes a “Jews are rich dudes who don’t care about the black man” stereotyped comment… > [@](#): > > I think he does have a predilection much more toward upper-class white brothers and Jewish brothers and a certain distance from free black men who will tell him the truth about himself as well as what’s going on in black communities, brown communities, red communities and poor white and working-class communities. Not to mention his weird analogy that [Lawrence Summers was like Ariel Sharon](http://www.npr.org/about/press/020415.cwest.html). > [@](#): > > Larry Summers is the Ariel Sharon of American higher education. He acts like a bull in a china shop; he acts like a bully in a very delicate and dangerous situation… He’s said some really weird things about Jews. It’s like, as long as the Jews aren’t part of the Capitalist Man, they should be Zen. We’re not allowed, to, you know, be [too white](http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2011/05/cornel-wests-race-baiting-antisemitic.html). :o Cause he’s pretty adamant that we are not. (Which is weird, coming from a guy who isn’t…Jewish. Not that I care to be labeled _any_ kind of race, since I lack racial pride.) > [@](#): > > “I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of free black men,” West says. “It’s understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man with black skin. All he has known culturally is white. He is just as human as I am, but that is his cultural formation. When he meets an independent black brother, it is frightening. And that’s true for a white brother. When you get a white brother who meets a free, independent black man, they got to be mature to really embrace fully what the brother is saying to them. It’s a tension, given the history. It can be overcome. Obama, coming out of Kansas influence, white, loving grandparents, coming out of Hawaii and Indonesia, when he meets these independent black folk who have a history of slavery, Jim Crow, Jane Crow and so on, he is very apprehensive. He has a certain rootlessness, a deracination. It is understandable. > > “He feels most comfortable with upper middle-class white and Jewish men who consider themselves very smart, very savvy and very effective in getting what they want,” he says. He’s he talks about fighting anti-antisemitism with his ‘Jewish brothers’ but then he does things like suggest that Obama is an Oreo who’d rather hang out with Jews. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/285 "2011-05-19T03:22:57Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > He is anti-Israel (well, depending on the political stunt of the day), radical on all accounts, makes a “Jews are rich dudes who don’t care about the black man” stereotyped comment… > > Not to mention his weird analogy that [Lawrence Summers was like Ariel Sharon](http://www.npr.org/about/press/020415.cwest.html). > He’s said some really weird things about Jews. It’s like, as long as the Jews aren’t part of the Capitalist Man, they should be Zen. We’re not allowed, to, you know, be [too white](http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2011/05/cornel-wests-race-baiting-antisemitic.html). :o Cause he’s pretty adamant that we are not. (Which is weird, coming from a guy who isn’t…Jewish. Not that I care to be labeled _any_ kind of race, since I lack racial pride.) > > He’s he talks about fighting anti-antisemitism with his ‘Jewish brothers’ but then he does things like suggest that Obama is an Oreo who’d rather hang out with Jews. :dubious: He’s also a huge fan of Louis Farrakhan. West actually spoke at my college graduation and praised Farrakhan while speaking there. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/286 "2011-05-19T04:27:31Z")
I know. I was afraid to bring that up lest I be accused of … whatever Fox News was doing in the 2008 elections. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/287 "2011-05-19T11:24:00Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Except one recognizes the other’s right to _existence_. Given Israel’s support of the “settlements”, which one would that be? :dubious: > [@](#): > > I regularly see pictures posted on Facebook (including as peoples’ profile pictures) of the entire map of Israel filled in with the Palestinian flag. And you should similarly have no trouble finding maps of “Eretz Israel” including the entire West Bank. > [@](#): > > Isn’t his name Netanyahu? :o No, seriously - in regards to what? 😕 You use the “confused” smiley in regard to a discussion about leaders having both the vision and courage to make peace? That says something. > [@Ibn Warraq](#): > > Begin would NEVER have shaken hands with Arafat for one thing. Why not? He shook Sadat’s hand, and far more. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/288 "2011-05-19T13:27:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t remember arguing that Albright couldn’t be sympathetic to arabs. I remenber responding to your contention that the state department was arabist (and i admit that I was confused by what arabist meant, I assumed that you meant someone sympatheic to Palestinians in the middle east conflict based on the context of your statement and i admitted that Albright’s Jewish heritage meant little, I did a google search for secretary of state and jewish and her name popped up). > > Its also a bit silly to imply that being wrong about one thing means i am wrong about everything. > especially when you say something like this: > > [Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_and_Entry_into_Israel_Law) > > Which explicitly denies citizenship to the children of Palestinians born in Israel even if one of the aprents is an Israeli citizen. Sorry I forgot, you dont accept wikipedia as a reliable cite: > > ^ a b Amos Schocken,Citizenship law makes Israel an apatheid state, Ha’aretz, 27 June 2008 > ^ Ben Lynfield. “Marriage law divides Israeli Arab families”. Christian Science Monitor. [Marriage law divides Israeli Arab families - CSMonitor.com](http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0808/p06s03-wome.html). > ^ a b Ben Lynfield. “Arab spouses face Israeli legal purge”. The Scotsman. [http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=721352006](http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=721352006). > ^ Ilan Shahar. “Gov’t seeks to extend order that can curb Arab family reunification”. Ha’aretz English Edition. [http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/793994.html](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/793994.html). > ^ “Israeli marriage law blocks citizenship for Palestinians”. San Francisco Chronicle. 2003-08-01. [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/08/01/MN110656.DTL](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/08/01/MN110656.DTL). > ^ “UN blasts Israeli marriage law”. BBC News. 2003-08-15. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle\_east/3152651.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3152651.stm). > ^ “Briefing to the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women”. Amnesty International. June 2005. [http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde150372005](http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde150372005). > > (these cites are from teh wiki page so someone might have just fabricated these as well, its a well oiled conspiracy) Um, what you are missing is that the West Bank and Gaza Strip are _not Israel_. Palestinians born there do not consider themselves Israeli citizens, are not considered by Israelis to be Israeli citizens. Palestinians actually born in Israel are, in fact, citizens. Unlike (say) Turks born in Germany prior to the year 2000. Certainly, Israel restricts the entry of citizenship applications from Arab nations, and from the occupied territories. But that is hardly unusual - many countries selectively restrict citizenship applications from persons located in targeted countries, either for economic or social-political reasons. You are confusing the two situations: (1) rejecting persons born to the “wrong ethnicity” within the territory of a nation (which Israel does not do, but which Germany does do); and (2) restricting citizenship applications from persons outside the country based on their country of origin - which is, in fact, quite common (Israel does this, and so do many other countries, either de facto or de jure - witness for example the extreme difficulty in my own country of Canada in getting “family reunification” citizenship where the family members are from places like Ukraine). The fact that those born in Israel are in fact citizens irrespective of arab-ness is witnessed in your own links, such as this quote from the Scotsman: > [@](#): > > Murad al-Sanaa, an Arab lawyer from Israel who is married to a Palestinian from Bethlehem in the West Bank, said: “The court is preventing me from living with my wife. My children were born in Israel and are Israeli citizens, but now they have to live without their mother if they want to live in Israel.” This does not comport with your summary: > [@](#): > > Which explicitly denies citizenship to the children of Palestinians born in Israel even if one of the aprents is an Israeli citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/289 "2011-05-19T13:38:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So I guess that the children of illegal aliens are denied citizenship but I am trying to find where citizenship is denied based on race the way it is in Israel. > > In fact Germany provides German citizenship to any child with a German parent regardless of where they are born. Israel denies citizenship to babies born to Israeli citizens if their other parent is Palestinian. Again, you are simply wrong in this. Or do you think you know the law better than a Palestinian lawyer? To quote again from your own link, > [@](#): > > Murad al-Sanaa, an Arab lawyer from Israel who is married to a Palestinian from Bethlehem in the West Bank, said: “The court is preventing me from living with my wife. My children were born in Israel and are Israeli citizens, but now they have to live without their mother if they want to live in Israel.” To repeat: > [@](#): > > My children were born in Israel and are Israeli citizens Simply repeating over and over again factually wrong information isn’t very effective. There is no “racist” denial of citizenship to Arabs born in Israel, even if one parent isn’t a citizen. It is simply not so. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/290 "2011-05-19T14:10:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Anyone who claims that the land was “stolen by the UN” is either grossly ignorant of the facts or deliberately lying. I get the impression that it’s the former not the latter. > > You really need to learn about the situation before making such foolish statements. > > The land was controlled not by “Palestinian Arabs”(who didn’t even think of themselves as such) but by the Ottomans who lost it to the British after WWI. > > At the time most of the landowners weren’t “Palestinian Arabs” but people who dwelled in Beirut or Damascus and during the time period, massive numbers of Jews, who’d been trickling in during the Ottoman Empire started to flood in due to the Balfour Declaration(which ironically enough was motivated by anti-Semitism not philo-semitism) though the British turned against the idea of the creation of a Jewish state by the early 1920s. Of course that’s just one side of the story. The majority of land was under the control of non-Jewish arabs despite the fact that the fee simple ownership was mostly by non-resident landlords and Jews. I swear, the similiarities between your style of argument and another poster here is amazing. > [@](#): > > Finally, the British turned the area over to the UN who decided to divide it between the Arab and Jewish populations after the Arab political leadership, led by El Hajj Amin Al-Husseini an avowed Nazi, made it clear they saw the Jews as aliens who needed to be slaughtered like cattle. > > It should be noted that the decision to divide it was made after the unanimous recommendation of a 12 representative committee which had three Muslims and no Jews. Of course it was also against the objection of EVERY arab state in the region, including all of Palestine’s neighbors and most of the resdients of palestine (including virtually all of the Palestinians). > [@](#): > > The really sad thing about this debacle was had the Palestinian Arab political leadership not decided to go to war and try and exterminate the Palestinian Jews the Palestinians of today would have a much larger state than just the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and Jerusalem would be an international city. Yes, yes, if they had just taken the crappy deal back then, they wouldn’t be facing the prospect of a REALLY crappy deal today. > [@](#): > > Anyway, this is all completely off-topic. > > We’re discussing anti-Semitism amongst the Left in America and Europe and when vast numbers of people blame Jews for the current economic crisis and believe in the dual loyalty canard it’s clearly not something that should simply be ignored. Its silly to think that Jews were responsible for the economic crisis, Angelo Mozilo was as responsible for the crisis as anyone and noone is saying its the Italians. As much of a criminal as Madoff was, the crisis led to the unraveling of his ponzi scheme, not the other way around. Greenspan might have been somewhat responsible but that is more due to his objectivism than his Judaism. Its silly to think that Jews as a class are any more suspect of dual loyalty than the Irish during their conflict with England or Taiwanese when it comes to the US role in the Taiwan-China relationship but the neoconservatives certainly seem to be disproportionately concerned about America’s policy with respect to Israel. Doug Feith comes to mind. I think some liberals have started focusing on Israel’s faults due to its association with the neoconservatives and the implications that may have had on our foreign policy decisions while they were influential. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/291 "2011-05-19T14:23:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > A better way to state it is that Israel has good reason to distrust the Palestinians. It also has good reason to engage with them. That’s hard to do when the people you want to negotiate with won’t even recognize your right to exist. I agree there is no point in negotiating with someone who will accept nothing less than your total destruction. Fortunately, this has not been the Palestinian position in quite some time. Recently > [@](#): > > No, not at all. I was pointing out that the left has historical reasons for disliking the Jews, but I didn’t mean to suggest that the other side had none. There are right-wing antisemites, and plenty of them. However, it is a peculiarity of today’s politics that there really is a large apparent divide between the attitude towards Jewish people today and where you sit on the left-right axis. Maybe that’s just a side-effect of a larger political struggle, and five years from now it will be the right taking an anti-Israel stance. For me, I saw a lot of people identifying the neoconservatives with zionism. I think that caused some irrational anti-zionism among some liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/292 "2011-05-19T14:38:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I agree there is no point in negotiating with someone who will accept nothing less than your total destruction. Fortunately, this has not been the Palestinian position in quite some time. Recently It is, in fact, the express position of Hamas - but not that of the PA. However, in the last month, Hamas and the PA have agreed to amalgamate. How this will play out is anyone’s guess. The optomistic believe that Hamas will agree to accept the PA’s pragmatic stance; the pessimists, that the amalgamated group will adopt Hamas’ rejectionist stance. [http://www.themedialine.org/news/news\_detail.asp?NewsID=32209](http://www.themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=32209) > [@](#): > > But on Tuesday, A-Zahar, a senior Hamas official in Gaza, told Al-Quds daily that Mashal’s conciliatory statements towards Israel “did not represent official Hamas policy.” > > “We did not give Abu-Mazen [Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas] the opportunity to negotiate nor did we agree to negotiations,” A-Zahar told the newspaper. “On the contrary, we have embarrassed him on the issue of negotiations time and again.” > > “No change has occurred in Hamas’ position, which views [armed] resistance as the sole option,” he added. > > A-Zahar’s comments seemed to echo those made by Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyya, who on May 15 told a crowd of 10,000 worshipers in a Gaza mosque that Palestinians hoped “to end the Zionist project in Palestine.” It is really, really difficult to work up much enthusiasm for “negotiations” when the starting position of the other side is, in essence, ‘armed struggle is the only option - we will destroy you all’. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/293 "2011-05-19T14:45:19Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Translation: I made myself look like a fool when I said it’s ridiculous to claim that the Ba’athists weren’t left-wingers so I’m going to try and cover my tracks by making flippant comments since I now realize that I know nothing of the governments or the political ideologies guiding that region. > > Dude, in all seriousness please stop making stupid statements about the Middle East. > > You obviously know little about the region, which in and of itself is hardly a crime since there are plenty of regions of the world I know nothing about. > > However, when you make sweeping pronouncements about such regions that you clearly know nothing about you insult those of us who are from there and there are few things in the world that piss us off then when westerners make ignorant statements about our part of the world. So I see what you mean about Ba’athists and socialism but it seems to be a different kind of socialism than what we are familiar with. For me the treatment of women in these countries just throws them out of the left wing of anything. Perhaps its just me the associations I have with East Asian socialism and gender. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/294 "2011-05-19T14:58:29Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > None of that fine example of verbal diarrhea you just spewed out gives any evidence of the Ba’athists not being left-wingers or suggests you have the slightest understanding of their beliefs. > > I have to say, your style of argumentation leaves much to be desired. But you, on the other hand, are a real charmer. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/295 "2011-05-19T15:03:20Z")
Those on the left support the underdogs. After the end of the Second World War it was easy to see Jews in this role. When Israel was founded against the opposition of the entire Arab world, it was easy to see Israel as David fighting Goliath. Israel’s victory in the Six Day War was so total that is was difficult to see the Israelis as oppressed any more. Now it was the Palestinians who resembled David fighting the Israeli Goliath. Also, in the United States and Europe Jews had become prosperous, so it became difficult to see them as victims of social and economic injustice. This does not mean that hostility to Jews by anyone is justified. The tendency of the secular left to sympathize with Muslims is ironic. Everything the secular left hates about the religious right and the Bible Belt is far more true of Muslims and Islamic society. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/296 "2011-05-19T15:13:18Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You mean the land they legally purchased from absentee landlords? > > You do realize that prior to the Palestinian Jews, most of the land was owned not by Palestinian Arabs, but by people living in Damascus or Beirut? > > Furthermore, it was controlled first by the Ottomans, then by the British and finally by the UN, who were given it by the British. > > The UN had to decide what to do with the land and the people living there. They decided to divide it into two states, one predominantly Jewish, while the other was an Arab one, because the Arab leadership made it clear they would exterminate the Jews if they had the chance and were led by an avowed Nazi. > > You have an extremely simplest understanding of the history of the region. I’ve had this discussion with FinnAgain and you seem to be engaging in some oversimplification as well. Those folks in Beirut and Damascus owned much of the land that could be owned in fee simple and therefore sold to the Jewish land fund. But that was a small percentage of the land in Palestine, like 6% of the land in Palestine. Much of the land was subject to communal ownership and usufructs which were all owned by Palestinians. Of course there was also a lot of unarable unusable land that noone really had (or wanted) a claim to that Israelis have turned into usable land (and even under Ottoman law, I believe that would have conveyed some ownership rights to someone who turned wilderness into arable land). But without a doubt there was significant land that belonged to the palestinians and your position on the land issue makes me think that you aren’t as neutral as you claim, despite your disapproval of the Balfour declaration. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/297 "2011-05-19T15:24:09Z")
[quote=“iiandyiiii, post:155, topic:581985”] While I’m sure it’s technically true that at least some Jews took land that wasn’t theirs by force, there seems to be far, far more to the story. Much of that force was defensive in nature- a response to being attacked. [qUOTE] The taking of Palestinian land wasn’t some technical footfault that happened at the edges. Palestinians left on the eve of war. A LOT of people leave someplace on the eve of war, wouldn’t you, especially if the war was being fought over whether these people you don’t know could take your land? Many of those who didn’t leave were chased out. More recently there have been incidents of land grabs (legal and illegal) from Palestinians for settlement activity. The taking of land might be considered spoils of war but then you open yourself up to arguments that land that was won through war can be reclaimed through war, and that seems like an invitation to perpetual violence to me. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/298 "2011-05-19T15:27:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Technically, it’s nationalist. Zionism should be seen as the last of the great 19th-Century nationalist movements Tehre are some Palestinian nationalists (and I suppose pan-arabists) who would disagree. > [@](#): > > Just like the the above movements, it had its problems and unintended consequences, but is ultimately irreversable. See palestinian nationalism and panarabism. > [@](#): > > cut out the anti-immigrant rhetoric, ok? I’m pretty sure most of them couldn’t be considered immigrants anymore. IIRC most Israelis are native born. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/299 "2011-05-19T15:32:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I think another element is the fact that many on the left see support of Israel -and by extension, sympahthy for Jews - as a right-wing position, and thus position themselves in the opposite cornerr on a partisan basis. I blame the Republicans for that, actually; they made my country a wedge issue, something it hadn’t been until recent years. It was the neocons. It drew more scrutiny to what was going on in Israel and for some liberals it triggered an insinctive reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/300 "2011-05-19T15:38:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How do you make peace with an enemy without exposing yourself to some level of danger? Outside of wiping them from the face of the Earth, I mean. Well, you can put them on reservations and shoot anyone that tries to leave. It worked for us and it looks like its working for them too… for a while at least. > **[Israeli army in deadly confrontations with pro-Palestinian protesters](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/15/israeli-army-involved-bloody-confrontations)** > > At least 13 people killed as troops clash with demonstrators in Gaza and on the borders with Syria and Lebanon [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985.md?page=16)