# Left-wing dopers, I tell you now, Bush may not have lied. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 29, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422 "2005-06-29T20:57:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/1 "2005-06-29T20:57:23Z")
Judging from all the evidence on hand, it is extremely likely that Bush lied. However, people look at arguments in favor of Bush’s bald-faced lying, and come away from it with the idea that people are making the claim that bush lied, proof-positive. Thus, I ask that rather then make the claim that bush lied, that dopers use phrases like “Bush almost certainly lied.” Or, “All evidence points to bush lying.” Why do I ask this, because, if people do so, then hopefully, we will stop hearing people make the claim that leftists have an extremely simplistic “bushiseeeeeeeeevil” view. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ::BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:: Oh, yeah right, like the other side will ever stop seeing our these stereotypes, rather then what we actually say. Yeah, right. Ha! ::Wipes away a tear of laughter:: [TSOPDA](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318691) ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/2 "2005-06-29T21:12:34Z")
At first I was thinking you had posted this in the wrong form. But then I decided that it is mundane, pointless stuff. Why you feel you must share it, I dunno. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/3 "2005-06-29T21:14:05Z")
Arrgh. For ‘form’ in my post above, please read ‘forum.’ Sometimes the fingers type much faster than the mind thinks. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/4 "2005-06-29T21:16:05Z")
Personally, I read it as forum, till you pointed it out. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/5 "2005-06-29T21:17:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, yeah right, like the other side will ever stop seeing our these stereotypes, rather then what we actually say. Once more, please. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/6 "2005-06-29T21:19:04Z")
Scott Plaid, I have been wondering this for a little while, and so hope that you don’t find me rude if I ask you if English is your first language. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/7 "2005-06-29T21:25:10Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Scott Plaid, I have been wondering this for a little while, and so hope that you don’t find me rude if I ask you if English is your first language. No, I don’t mind if you ask. However, I don’t see what is unclear about my statement. Anyone want to rephrase this for him? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/8 "2005-06-29T21:31:55Z")
Only left-wing people can be cynical? You learn somethign every day… ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/9 "2005-06-29T21:48:37Z")
Basically, this is mostly in response to Shodan’s latest post, broken down into chunks [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6314808&postcount=150). However, I am not annoyed enough to pit him, just to show that if people used the phrase “It is likely that Bush lied about (blank)”, rather then the claim “Bush lied. Full stop.”, we (liberals) might have a few less objection from the other side. Not that much less, but still… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/10 "2005-06-29T22:04:56Z")
You are correct and I’ve sometimes had the same thought. But would it make much difference to anybody on the right? Would it make any difference to **Shodan** , and even if so, would it be worth the effort? ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/11 "2005-06-29T22:08:03Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > No, I don’t mind if you ask. However, I don’t see what is unclear about my statement. Anyone want to rephrase this for him? Sure. How about “No, I don’t mind. But I think my statement is perfectly clear. Can anyone help out here?” ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/12 "2005-06-29T22:17:12Z")
Hmm… It looks like I have accidentally written down my thoughts in code. To be specific, the code used by those who are annoyed with bush apologist in GD. Damn. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/13 "2005-06-29T22:18:28Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Basically, this is mostly in response to Shodan’s latest post, broken down into chunks [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6314808&postcount=150). However, I am not annoyed enough to pit him, just to show that if people used the phrase “It is likely that Bush lied about (blank)”, rather then the claim “Bush lied. Full stop.”, we (liberals) might have a few less objection from the other side. Not that much less, but still… It’s not enough to use the phrase. There’s gotta be proof involved, and to this date, absolutely no one has been able to prove that Bush has lied about anything. Of course, they are probably coming from the position that “I disagree with Bush, therefore he’s lying” and they really have nothing more than that. At least, that’s how it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/14 "2005-06-29T22:20:57Z")
My thought on the subject pretty much agree with those of [SteveG1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6314965&postcount=155) ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/15 "2005-06-29T22:22:42Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > It looks like I have accidentally written down my thoughts in code. I figured as much. Does the original post actually mean THE FAT MAN WALKS ALONE, by any chance? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/16 "2005-06-29T22:25:33Z")
No, refering to the atomic bomb would be kinda right wing, not a lef-wing code. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/17 "2005-06-29T23:12:44Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > Sure. How about “No, I don’t mind. But I think my statement is perfectly clear. Can anyone help out here?” Well, I meant the OP, rather then my request, but thanks anyway. ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/18 "2005-06-29T23:59:45Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > No, refering to the atomic bomb would be kinda right wing, not a lef-wing code. 🙂 Okay then. Maybe the code means HOWARD DEAN WALKS ALONE? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/19 "2005-06-30T01:51:10Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > No, I don’t mind if you ask. However, I don’t see what is unclear about my statement. Anyone want to rephrase this for him? Well, I’ll give it a shot. Firing up the **MonstreMatic Translator[sup]TM[/sup]**… Dropping in the OP. > [@](#): > > Judging from all the evidence on hand, it is extremely likely that Bush lied. **Translation** : I think that Bush lied. I’m not going to actually say what I think Bush lied _about_, or be specific or anything. I’m probably stating the current popular claim of “Bush lied about Iraq having WMDs”. But then again, maybe I’m saying “Bush lied about having sex last with Laura last night.” I’ll just keep it vague, because “Bush lied” is a really fun catch-phrase, and then nobody can really argue against me for it. After all, most everybody has lied about something at some point in their lives. > [@](#): > > However, people look at arguments in favor of Bush’s bald-faced lying, and come away from it with the idea that people are making the claim that bush lied, proof-positive. **Translation** : Because some people make arguments in favor of the statement “Bush lied”, some _other_ people are getting the idea that the _first_ people are saying, “Bush lied”. > [@](#): > > Thus, **Translation** : I will use a nice linking word so that it will appear that the point of what I am about to say actually follows from what I said a minute ago. > [@](#): > > I ask that rather then make the claim that bush lied, that dopers use phrases like “Bush almost certainly lied.” Or, “All evidence points to bush lying.” > > Why do I ask this, because, if people do so, then hopefully, we will stop hearing people make the claim that leftists have an extremely simplistic “bushiseeeeeeeeevil” view. **Translation** : I will now make a tongue-in-cheek suggestion that we lefties should stop saying “Bush lied”, because it’s pissing off the righties and making them say, “But you don’t have definitive _proof_, so how can you say this as if it were fact?” – and maybe they will stop whining about proof if we give them a statement with the possibility of a tiny iota of uncertainty – like “Bush almost certainly lied” or “All evidence points to Bush lied” or “We are personally convinced that Bush lied”. It’s a tongue in cheek suggestion, because I don’t _really_ care if my fellow liberals start doing this or not – I just wanted to mock some stuff that **Shodan** and **Bricker** said in a current Great Debates thread, which I am too lazy to link to in this OP (never mind that such a link _probably_ would have clued people in to why I’m actually posting it)… Maybe later in this thread, perhaps around post #9, I’ll put up a link to a post from that thread, although odds are good that it won’t contain any of the specific “Bush lied” discussion that sparked this OP idea. > [@](#): > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . **Translation** : Oh drat! I forgot how to do the strikethrough! Now this thread won’t have one, darn it all to heck! > [@](#): > > ::BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:: **Translation** : Diabolical laughter. Or maybe diabolical acting… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422/20 "2005-06-30T04:22:29Z")
**Scott** , my Plaid Lad, you need to get out more. Turn your computer off, put some shoes on and go for a walk. Maybe even stop at a pub and buy a beer. Feel the breeze on your face and speak to someone you meet while you are out. It’ll do you a world of good. Really. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-dopers-i-tell-you-now-bush-may-not-have-lied/310422.md?page=2)