# Lefties who are angry at Obama are misguided **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lefties-who-are-angry-at-obama-are-misguided/563820 "2010-12-11T22:40:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lefties-who-are-angry-at-obama-are-misguided/563820/161 "2010-12-20T22:54:33Z")
> [@SpartanDC](#): > > This would have been a spectacular failure. I think the “ask for the moon so you get the stars” tactic can work in closed-room situations where both sides _need_ a resolution, but not in the political sphere. On the health care bill, perhaps, I’m not crazy about the one we got and would rather not have it at all. If it doesn’t bend the cost curve I don’t really think of it as addressing the most important problem in health care. I would have preferred if he went after financial reform. I am more peeved at the recent capitulation where the Republicans needed a deal as badly as the Democrats. You don’t think that the Republicans needed a resolution to the tax issue? You don’t think the Republicans would have taken an estate tax that mirrored the one they got when they held both houses and the white house? > [@](#): > > If Obama did that, we would have seen large numbers of _Democratic_ lawmakers abandoning him, along with a GOP in hysterics, except in this case their rhetoric would have been the truth. You can’t start legislative negotiations with a stance like that. It wasn’t like this was a divorce proceeding where some resolution had to be reached. When your opponents are quite happy with the status quo, proposing something that far away from it gives them perfect cause to get up from negotiations and never come back. And how many Republicans ended up voting for it? “The final House vote was 220 to 207, and the Senate vote was 56 to 43, with the Republicans unanimously opposed in both chambers.” The Republicans never came to the table, Obama spent a lot of time and energy negotiating with himself. > [@](#): > > Politicians don’t determine what they’re willing to settle for by looking at how much they’re willing to give _in relation to the other side’s starting position_. That seems to be how Obama operates. Split the difference no matter how unreasonable the other side is being. > [@](#): > > Your theory makes it sound like there was some scale with “British-style system” on one end and “laissez-faire health care policy” on the other with notches in between, and the Republicans would have said “OK, we’ll only accept something that’s three notches to the right of what Obama proposes, regardless of what that is.” Unanimous. They were unanimous in their votes against eh bill. SO what did all that compromise get Obama? Not one single vote. > [@](#): > > As for the tax cut package, I actually blame Pelosi and Reid much more than Obama. Why? Because they should have forced votes on that _before_ the election, when some Republicans might have been too scared to actually vote against a middle class tax cut. That was their opportunity. Frankly, I’m amazed the White House got what it did after waiting until after the “shellacking.” I’m surprised that the Republicans got what they did with a minority in both houses and a Democratic white house. > [@](#): > > I also don’t buy the (somewhat paranoid, IMHO) argument that the payroll cat cut is letting the GOP get its foot in the door with regard to destroying Social Security. First, that would be politically stupid. Second, Obama’s team knows that they’ll have MUCH bigger fiscal fish to fry when they decide to address our serious long-term deficit issues. All of this that happened this month has been tinkering at the margins that will be completely subsumed by much, much larger changes in a few years. Yeah neither do I. The payroll tax cut isn’t the camel’s nose until they cut the payroll tax without funding the shortfall out of the general budget. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lefties-who-are-angry-at-obama-are-misguided/563820/162 "2010-12-20T22:56:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My bet? He’s been listening to Horndog Bill. Downside: don’t want no more goddam _menshevik_ “centrist” BLue Dead Dog Clintonistas! Upside: Horndog is a tactical genius, politics wise. Bill spoke, Barry listened. > > He’s counting on the Pubbies to overreach, and lose their shit. Then he’s counting on the rest of us to remember that for more than a year. That last part is shakier than a new-born lamb with malaria, but the first part is a mortal lock. I don’t know that the country will even remember it past Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lefties-who-are-angry-at-obama-are-misguided/563820/163 "2010-12-22T04:55:05Z")
This admin. gives and takes away. They get rid of DADT, then destroy Net Neutrality. It seems like that over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lefties-who-are-angry-at-obama-are-misguided/563820/164 "2010-12-22T05:25:31Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > This admin. gives and takes away. They get rid of DADT, then destroy Net Neutrality. It seems like that over and over. Get a grip. The FCC isn’t run by the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lefties-who-are-angry-at-obama-are-misguided/563820/165 "2010-12-22T08:17:23Z")
And it looks like the new START treaty is going to be [ratified](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/22/world/europe/22start.html?_r=1), another big win for Obama. It’s been a staggeringly productive lame duck session and a huge personal triumph for Obama so soon after the mid-term “shellacking”. Lindsay Graham is [not happy](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/graham-berates-gop-for-capitulation-of-dramatic-proportions-in-lame-duck.php?ref=fpb). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lefties-who-are-angry-at-obama-are-misguided/563820/166 "2010-12-22T18:06:55Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > And it looks like the new START treaty is going to be [ratified](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/22/world/europe/22start.html?_r=1), another big win for Obama. It’s been a staggeringly productive lame duck session and a huge personal triumph for Obama so soon after the mid-term “shellacking”. Lindsay Graham is [not happy](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/graham-berates-gop-for-capitulation-of-dramatic-proportions-in-lame-duck.php?ref=fpb). I don’t think Lindsay Graham got the message that the only thing that mattered was tax cuts for the rich. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lefties-who-are-angry-at-obama-are-misguided/563820.md?page=8)