# Leftist U.S. Military Personnel??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870 "2005-11-01T06:16:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rippingtons\_fan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rippingtons_fan/32/11767_2.png) [@rippingtons\_fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rippingtons_fan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/1 "2005-11-01T06:16:16Z")
Are there any U.S. senior military officers or NCO’s known to hold (or have held) leftist political views or sympathies, rather than right wing political views or sympathies? (I don’t mean as communists, but rather as socialists, democratic socialists and the like, pretty much anything left of centre.) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/2 "2005-11-01T06:27:23Z")
I don’t think anyone knew George Marshall’s political views, if he had any. But he and his policies were[excoriated by the McCarthyites.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Marshall) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/3 "2005-11-01T06:28:14Z")
Anything to the left of the Democratic Party in America is a decidedly minority viewpoint, and isn’t represented in great numbers anywhere. And since the military tends not only to be a more conservative organization and a volunteer force on top of that, it’s not surprising that hard core leftists tend to shy away from it. When I was in, in the mid-1990’s, there were an awful lot of Democrats and Democratic leaning voters to be found in the enlisted and officer ranks both. Not enough to be a majority, but they were a sizeable minority. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/4 "2005-11-01T06:32:31Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I don’t think anyone knew George Marshall’s political views, if he had any. But he and his policies were[excoriated by the McCarthyites.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Marshall) George Marshall was a decent sort who served Republicans and Democrats equally well. The most recent and senior example, I guess, would be Wesley Clark. But for all of the man’s considerable faults (and his numerous virtues) absolutely nobody would credibly call the man a leftist. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/5 "2005-11-01T06:53:37Z")
American military officers tend to be publicly nonpolitical. Senior officers tend to be conventional or very discreet; that is how they got to be be senior. That being said, the American military is broadly speaking a reflection of American society. We could suspect (and it has been my couple of decades of experience) as many people holding almost any political view as the general public. (A special note must be made for racism, which is strongly suppressed, and sexism, which is less so.) Also, an Army is a very ‘socialist’ organization; free health care, education, a sense of community. I for one was attracted by this aspect of military life. The military life attracts and promotes eccentrics. No other part of modern society gives so many people such wide-ranging authority. You can run your (whatever) the way you want as long as it works. As a result, we can find examples of right-wing nut jobs (‘Americanism Education’) and left-wing (‘the Lunchpail program’). So in a word, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/6 "2005-11-01T13:15:39Z")
Well, there was Smedley Butler. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/7 "2005-11-01T13:24:11Z")
Of course, the military censors all but right wing opinions from having radio shows on the Armed Forces Network. Just ask Ed Schultz how tolerant the military is of leftist views. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/8 "2005-11-01T13:28:11Z")
Ask Rush about how long AFRTS refused to air his show. It took a near-insurection to get him on. Not that it matters nowadays. Satellite radio and TV changes everything. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/9 "2005-11-01T14:12:48Z")
A couple of examples of (not particularly high-level) officers with rather leftist views that I’ve met: There was an Air Force officer I knew who was about as much an eco-freak (and I mean that as a complement) as I can imagine without him quitting his job and moving to a commune. He owned a car but only drove it a couple times a month. He biked to work nearly every day. (His assignment at the time was at a mostly civilian government agency.) He composted his garbage. I presume he still an eco-freak. Last time I saw him he was moving away to his next assignment. He had just gotten married to a woman who he met because she was the clerk at a whole-foods supermarket he frequented. I knew a former Marine officer who was a staff lawyer for a local ACLU branch. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/10 "2005-11-01T15:31:39Z")
A Petty Officer in my division aboard an aircraft carrier was a very active member of the San Francisco branch of Green Peace. He even got complimented on that by our officers. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/11 "2005-11-01T15:45:23Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > George Marshall was a decent sort who served Republicans and Democrats equally well. In the Army, yes. Although his service at high rank was under Democratic administrations. As Secretary of State and Defense Secretary he served under Truman. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/12 "2005-11-01T16:02:05Z")
> [@rippingtons\_fan](#): > > Are there any U.S. senior military officers or NCO’s known to hold (or have held) leftist political views or sympathies, rather than right wing political views or sympathies? Certainly. I knew an NCO (he was actually a CPO) once who was self described as a ‘left wing liberal’ but talking to him he obviously had Marxist tendencies. The funny thing (well, some would find it so)…he was very much so a patriot and had joined because he felt called to serve his country. He was probably THE best NCO I ever served with, though some of his ideas were off the wall politically (well, from my perspective 😛 ). We had some interesting discussions. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/13 "2005-11-01T16:04:29Z")
The story’s told about Marshall, when he was an upperclassman at West Point, upbraiding another upperclassman who was heaping abuse on a plebe. He said, “Remember, he is an American just like you.” Imagine that attitude in our military today. It would be laughably out of date. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/14 "2005-11-01T18:00:24Z")
My favorite Marshall story is from when he was Secretary of State, gave a press conference and a reporter asked, “What do you feel about the [issue of the day]?” He gently replied, “I save my feelings for Mrs. Marshall.” As to the OP: I have two friends now serving in Iraq, both in the Army: a JAG captain who is a moderate Democrat (and ran as such for county prosecutor, but lost), and an infantry sergeant who is a bit more liberal than that, and is a \*fierce \* critic of the Bush Administration’s policies there. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/15 "2005-11-01T18:43:40Z")
He wasn’t high-ranking, but Pat Tillman hated Dubya, loved Noam Chomsky, and believed that the war in Iraq was “fucking illegal”. ([Cite](http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1007-22.htm)) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/16 "2005-11-01T22:13:44Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > The story’s told about Marshall, when he was an upperclassman at West Point, upbraiding another upperclassman who was heaping abuse on a plebe. He said, “Remember, he is an American just like you.” > > Imagine that attitude in our military today. It would be laughably out of date. Just to set the record straight, Marshall was a graduate of the Virginia Military Institute. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/17 "2005-11-02T00:18:23Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > The story’s told about Marshall, when he was an upperclassman at West Point, upbraiding another upperclassman who was heaping abuse on a plebe. He said, “Remember, he is an American just like you.” > > Imagine that attitude in our military today. It would be laughably out of date. Really, now? I clearly recall being told by my Drill Sergeants that my platoon-mates, squad-mates, etc., were all Soldiers just like I was. I clearly recall all of us being instructed in the Code of Conduct which had as part of it, “I am an American.” Now, why, exactly do you think such an attitude is laughably out of date in the military? Please be so kind as to provide cites to prove the facts on which you’ve based that opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/18 "2005-11-02T00:33:33Z")
Robert A. Heinlein was a career Navy officer, before being discharged for health reasons, and he’s an extreme something-or-other. But just what extreme, nobody can ever seem to agree. **Monty** , I think the relelvant part of that annecdote is that, because both are Americans, upperclassmen at military academies should not heap abuse on plebes. It’s not the title, it’s the behaviour it warrents. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/19 "2005-11-02T00:36:40Z")
Extremely dead? That’s one everyone can agree on… ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870/20 "2005-11-02T01:39:32Z")
Me. Of course it was 30+ years ago. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leftist-u-s-military-personnel/328870.md?page=2)