# Legal Ethics- Recommending a Lawyer **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785 "2009-07-30T16:31:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/1 "2009-07-30T16:31:48Z")
This could veer into GD, but I think that there’s a factual answer one way or the other, even if it might depend on the individual lawyer’s views. And I know no one here is my lawyer, this is strictly hypothetical. While visiting Virginia, I’m arrested for beating up old people. While waiting for my trial, I get a sudden idea, “Why not ask **Bricker** if he knows any good lawyers in the area?” So I log onto SDMB and say, “I was arrested for beating up old people, do you know any criminal defense attorneys in the area?” Of course Bricker gets no compensation for this, he’s just a nice guy. 1.) Is he professionally obligated to suggest anyone at all? 2.)a.) If, as an anonymous poster on the Internet, he suggests a real shyster who falls asleep at the trial and gets me the death penalty, is he legally liable? b.) Professionally liable? (disbarred, lawyer buddies won’t hang out with him, etc.) 3.) If Bricker and I are friends IRL, does that change anything? 4.) I assume that the code of ethics is probably mostly uniform across the US. Is it much the same in any common law system? I’ll add a “Need answer fast!” for giggles. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/2 "2009-07-30T16:46:05Z")
> [@MeDrewNotYou](#): > > This could veer into GD, but I think that there’s a factual answer one way or the other, even if it might depend on the individual lawyer’s views. And I know no one here is my lawyer, this is strictly hypothetical. > > While visiting Virginia, I’m arrested for beating up old people. While waiting for my trial, I get a sudden idea, “Why not ask **Bricker** if he knows any good lawyers in the area?” So I log onto SDMB and say, “I was arrested for beating up old people, do you know any criminal defense attorneys in the area?” Of course Bricker gets no compensation for this, he’s just a nice guy. > > 1.) Is he professionally obligated to suggest anyone at all? > 2.)a.) If, as an anonymous poster on the Internet, he suggests a real shyster who falls asleep at the trial and gets me the death penalty, is he legally liable? b.) Professionally liable? (disbarred, lawyer buddies won’t hang out with him, etc.) > 3.) If Bricker and I are friends IRL, does that change anything? > 4.) I assume that the code of ethics is probably mostly uniform across the US. Is it much the same in any common law system? > > I’ll add a “Need answer fast!” for giggles. 😉 1.) Is he professionally obligated to suggest anyone at all? No. 2.)a.) If, as an anonymous poster on the Internet, he suggests a real shyster who falls asleep at the trial and gets me the death penalty, is he legally liable? No. b.) Professionally liable? (disbarred, lawyer buddies won’t hang out with him, etc.)? No. 3.) If Bricker and I are friends IRL, does that change anything? Not with respect to the two questions you’ve asked. Your going to jail because the lawyer he recomended to you fell asleep during your trial might test your friendship. 4.) I assume that the code of ethics is probably mostly uniform across the US. Is it much the same in any common law system? Kind of. Rules of ethics are promulgated for each state - in Georgia by the Georgia Supreme Court - but the ABA’s a model rules of professional responsibility have been adopted by all but two states. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/3 "2009-07-30T16:49:39Z")
1. No. 2. a) Possibly, on a malpractice theory–but this would be professional liability. b) He’s not going to get disbarred for refering you to another member of the bar believed to be in good standing. I see no reason to impose discipline for that. 3. I don’t think so. 4. You know what happens when you assume. There are some significant differences in various states, on various issues. ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/4 "2009-07-30T17:08:54Z")
In reference to question 4, is there a model code that everyone (US) cribs from, then applies whatever local quirks to? And for that matter, what about Canada, UK, and Australia? Also, any examples of what’s okay\* in one locale that isn’t in another, or vice-versa? For example, I become a client after receiving free advice in North Statesylvania but have to compensate to become a client in South Statesylvania. \*- ‘Okay’ in that you can do something that, however morally or ethically questionable, doesn’t get you sued/disbarred/whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/5 "2009-07-30T17:37:07Z")
> [@MeDrewNotYou](#): > > In reference to question 4, is there a model code that everyone (US) cribs from, then applies whatever local quirks to? And for that matter, what about Canada, UK, and Australia? Yes, the [ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct](http://www.law.cornell.edu/ethics/aba/current/ABA_CODE.HTM) > [@](#): > > Also, any examples of what’s okay\* in one locale that isn’t in another, or vice-versa? For example, I become a client after receiving free advice in North Statesylvania but have to compensate to become a client in South Statesylvania. > > \*- ‘Okay’ in that you can do something that, however morally or ethically questionable, doesn’t get you sued/disbarred/whatever. The differences are usually more minor and picayune than that. For example, In New York you cannot use just a first initial on a sign or ad for your services unless that is the only way you normally use your name. The MRPC rule is less specific, just that you “can’t be misleading.” So under the MPRC, and in a state directly adopting thar rule, you could use a first initial if it wasn’t misleading. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/6 "2009-07-30T18:01:57Z")
> [@MeDrewNotYou](#): > > This could veer into GD, but I think that there’s a factual answer one way or the other, even if it might depend on the individual lawyer’s views. And I know no one here is my lawyer, this is strictly hypothetical. > > While visiting Virginia, I’m arrested for beating up old people. While waiting for my trial, I get a sudden idea, “Why not ask **Bricker** if he knows any good lawyers in the area?” So I log onto SDMB and say, “I was arrested for beating up old people, do you know any criminal defense attorneys in the area?” Of course Bricker gets no compensation for this, he’s just a nice guy. > > 1.) Is he professionally obligated to suggest anyone at all? > 2.)a.) If, as an anonymous poster on the Internet, he suggests a real shyster who falls asleep at the trial and gets me the death penalty, is he legally liable? > b.) Professionally liable? (disbarred, lawyer buddies won’t hang out with him, etc.) > 3.) If Bricker and I are friends IRL, does that change anything? > 4.) I assume that the code of ethics is probably mostly uniform across the US. Is it much the same in any common law system? > > I’ll add a “Need answer fast!” for giggles. 😉 1. No 2. Unless there is a voluntary assumption of responsibility and it is known (or was in the contemplation) that you would rely on his advice; No 3. As above 4)Generally the rules are the same world over, with some differences to suit local customs/quriks. There was an United Kingdom House of Lords Case on circumstances similar to this, [Hedley Byrne v Heller.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedley_Byrne_&_Co_Ltd_v_Heller_&_Partners_Ltd) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/7 "2009-07-30T18:25:28Z")
Good luck at your trial! ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/8 "2009-07-30T18:28:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > 1. No > > **2) Unless there is a voluntary assumption of responsibility and it is known (or was in the contemplation) that you would rely on his advice; No** > > 1. As above > > 4)Generally the rules are the same world over, with some differences to suit local customs/quriks. > > There was an United Kingdom House of Lords Case on circumstances similar to this, [Hedley Byrne v Heller.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedley_Byrne_&_Co_Ltd_v_Heller_&_Partners_Ltd) Bolding mine I’m not clear on the ‘voluntary assumption’ bit. Isn’t he, by _choosing \* to refer me saying that, in his opinion as a lawyer, Joe Smith is a good choice to defend me? It seems like an automatic attorney-client relationship_ because he’s using his legal experience to advise me. **Hello Again** - I’m looking through the Model Rules (yay for summer vacation!). Mostly straightforward but still pretty interesting. \*- That said, it seems like a relationship which I’m not likely to be able to sue over if Joe Smith sucks. As long as I’m being advised that, as far as he knows, Joe Smith is capable, I’ve got nothin’ unless he’s hiding something or he and Joe have an ‘arrangement.’ > [@Bricker](#): > > Good luck at your trial! I think I’ve got a good case. That old man was _totally_ goading me when I was on his lawn. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/9 "2009-07-30T18:35:24Z")
> [@MeDrewNotYou](#): > > I’m not clear on the ‘voluntary assumption’ bit. Isn’t he, by _choosing \* to refer me saying that, in his opinion as a lawyer, Joe Smith is a good choice to defend me? It seems like an automatic attorney-client relationship_ because he’s using his legal experience to advise me. Assumed responsibility means \*he has of his own free will decided to give advice and \*he knows that you will rely on it and \*for a specific reason ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/10 "2009-07-30T18:39:12Z")
> [@MeDrewNotYou](#): > > And for that matter, what about Canada … ? Generally, each province’s Law Society (same thing as a state bar association) sets the provincial code of professional conduct. Even though they’re not taken from the same source, in practice, they’re all pretty much the same standards. Although I have not surveyed every province’s code of conduct in detail–I know Alberta’s quite well, but have also looked at Ontario’s closely, and a few others in less detail–they all address the same things in the same way. I’ve also looked at the ABA’s Model Rules; and again, they’re not so different from what I’m used to here. I’m unsure what “local quirks” may come into play. Client confidentiality, conflicts of interest and the rest of the concerns in the code of professional conduct would seem to be as important in one province (or state) as in the others. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/11 "2009-07-30T21:35:49Z")
On client confidentiality, in my state, in certain situations, I can reveal client confidences to prevent a serious crime, but I am not required to do so. I think there may be other states where that disclosure may be required… ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/12 "2009-07-30T22:26:03Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I’m unsure what “local quirks” may come into play. Client confidentiality, conflicts of interest and the rest of the concerns in the code of professional conduct would seem to be as important in one province (or state) as in the others. What exactly constitutes “Conflct of Interest”, client confidentiality etc, may vary slightly from jurisdiction. For example, lawyer-client privilege in England and Wales has become more and more qualified due to statute. Under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, a Barrister may be under a duty to disclose information to the court regarding his clients finances if a confiscation order is made. ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/13 "2009-07-31T15:29:50Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Assumed responsibility > > means > > \*he has of his own free will decided to give advice > > and > > \*he knows that you will rely on it > > and > > \*for a specific reason So to my understanding, recommending a lawyer is somewhat of a big deal, and creates a relationship. \ ***he has of his own free will decided to give advice** When I tell him I need a criminal defense attorney in his area, Bricker freely decides to suggest Joe Smith. \ ***he knows that you will rely on it** By telling him that I’m in legal trouble and need a lawyer, it seems reasonable to infer that I will likely follow his suggestion. \ ***for a specific reason** I’ve already told him I’m in trouble for beating up old people and need a lawyer. So does asking Bricker to suggest someone in his area, create an attorney-client relationship? Is this relationship of the same kind as if I just hired him outright to defend me? And is this generally something that lawyers do or refrain from doing? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/14 "2009-07-31T16:36:31Z")
1. Firstly in the senario that you put forward, **Bricker** or anyother hypothetical lawyers liability will be very limited; to the extent of what was asked for. Here you asked for a Criminal Defence Attorney, he has agreed only to let you know the name of one he knows, he has made no representation as to the competance of the attorney nor was it requested. You could sue him potentially if who he guided you too was NOT a criminal defence attorney, but not on his abilities. 2. Secondly Professional Negligence is by its nature limited in scope, the standard must fall below that of a reasonable practitioner. 3. Finally usually in circumstances such as these it is standard for lawyers to append the words “without responsibility” to such advice. ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/15 "2009-07-31T18:50:40Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > 1. Firstly in the senario that you put forward, **Bricker** or anyother hypothetical lawyers liability will be very limited; to the extent of what was asked for. Here you asked for a Criminal Defence Attorney, he has agreed only to let you know the name of one he knows, he has made no representation as to the competance of the attorney nor was it requested. You could sue him potentially if who he guided you too was NOT a criminal defence attorney, but not on his abilities. > > 2. Secondly Professional Negligence is by its nature limited in scope, the standard must fall below that of a reasonable practitioner. > > 3. Finally usually in circumstances such as these it is standard for lawyers to append the words “without responsibility” to such advice. I think I see. So as long as Joe Smith _is_ a criminal defense attorney and is licensed to practice where we’re at, Bricker is in the clear barring unusual circumstances. Unless he’s saying something like, “Joe Smith is the best guy around. I promise he’ll win your case.” Is that a fair reading? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/16 "2009-08-01T17:41:55Z")
Yes, a bit simplistic, but generally yes. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/17 "2009-08-01T17:56:16Z")
Here is an article that discusses the cases on negligent referral: [http://www.nmbar.org/AboutSBNM/Committees/LPL/NotJustAboutReferral.pdf](http://www.nmbar.org/AboutSBNM/Committees/LPL/NotJustAboutReferral.pdf) This one talks about it a little too, although it’s mainly about attorneys referring clients to “rogue stockbrokers,” which is different: [http://www.stockbrokerlitigation.com/files/Rogue%20Stockbrokers%20and%20the%20Duty%20to%20Warn.NE.pdf](http://www.stockbrokerlitigation.com/files/Rogue%20Stockbrokers%20and%20the%20Duty%20to%20Warn.NE.pdf) And this one discusses the liability of legal referral programs: [http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/lris/clearinghouse/liable.pdf](http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/lris/clearinghouse/liable.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-ethics-recommending-a-lawyer/504785/18 "2009-08-01T18:58:48Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Yes, a bit simplistic, but generally yes. As long as I’m in the ballpark, even if my seats are in the nosebleed section, I’m content. 🙂 Understanding the general idea is good enough for me, though. > [@Gfactor](#): > > Here is an article that discusses the cases on negligent referral: [http://www.nmbar.org/AboutSBNM/Committees/LPL/NotJustAboutReferral.pdf](http://www.nmbar.org/AboutSBNM/Committees/LPL/NotJustAboutReferral.pdf) > > This one talks about it a little too, although it’s mainly about attorneys referring clients to “rogue stockbrokers,” which is different: [http://www.stockbrokerlitigation.com/files/Rogue%20Stockbrokers%20and%20the%20Duty%20to%20Warn.NE.pdf](http://www.stockbrokerlitigation.com/files/Rogue%20Stockbrokers%20and%20the%20Duty%20to%20Warn.NE.pdf) > > And this one discusses the liability of legal referral programs: [http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/lris/clearinghouse/liable.pdf](http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/lris/clearinghouse/liable.pdf) I’ll look at those this evening, especially the 3rd one, thanks!