# Legal folks: Can Attorneys really do this? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 16, 2014, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262 "2014-07-16T10:33:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/21 "2014-07-16T20:20:17Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > \ > > The irony. It burns. > > A state bar exam is a written test an applicant must pass as part of the process of being admitted to practice law in that state. It may have a question concerning frivolous litigation, but it does not establish any rules or enforcement mechanisms. > > A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Well, I could see the MPRE section covering something along those lines, but not the July / Feb portions. And, holy crap, I just realized that it’s just about that time of year. I need to start prepping myself for the annual “relapse / nightmares.” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/22 "2014-07-16T20:32:15Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > The only irony I see is a purported lawyer jumping on a tiny mistake to prove how much lawyers AREN’T assholes. Does it burn? Maybe you should get your vision checked. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/23 "2014-07-16T20:35:13Z")
The MBE doesn’t have an ethics/professional conduct portion but most state exams do. Florida certainly does; they throw an ethics issue in at the end of every essay fact pattern. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/24 "2014-07-16T20:36:45Z")
One of my favorite memories was announcing in court that I needed to be excused from jury duty on the case at hand because I knew things about the lawyer for the defense that made me wholly incapable of being impartial. Everyone in the courtroom looked at him, and all he could do was look at me to try to figure out where he knew me from. As it happened, he didn’t. An employee of my then-wife, though, had gone with her son to secure his services, and the lawyer, upon hearing their situation apparently told the son in so many words that he was being a pussy and he should just grow a pair of balls. As it happens, I got nothing wrong with telling someone that, but (a) the way I heard the story made me think of the lawyer as a total asshole and (b) it was Thursday afternoon, and I didn’t really want to be seated on a new jury. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/25 "2014-07-16T20:50:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The MBE doesn’t have an ethics/professional conduct portion but most state exams do. Florida certainly does; they throw an ethics issue in at the end of every essay fact pattern. The MPRE (Multistate Professional Responsibility Exam) covers ethics / professional responsibility and is given in March, August, and November. In Texas (3 days of fun! :rolleyes:), we didn’t have any specific ethics questions on the state-specific parts of the Bar exam, given in July and Feb. You must pass both tests for your license. And, if anyone is interested, here are some [sample questions](http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/MPRE/MPRE-Sample-Test-Questions.pdf) from the MPRE. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/26 "2014-07-16T20:58:55Z")
I know what the MPRE is. It’s given in every state except Maryland and Wisconsin. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/27 "2014-07-16T21:02:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I know what the MPRE is. It’s given in every state except Maryland and Wisconsin. I didn’t mean to infer that you weren’t. I was just trying to provide information for those who are following the thread and might be unfamiliar w/ the acronym. My apologies if I came across otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/28 "2014-07-16T21:11:17Z")
_Mea culpa_. I’m taking the bar in two weeks so I’m a little tetchy right now. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/29 "2014-07-16T21:16:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _Mea culpa_. I’m taking the bar in two weeks so I’m a little tetchy right now. Oh, I feel your pain and completely understand, believe me. How long is it for you? Ours was 15 hours, spread over three days (3 hours on the first, 6 each on the other two). Word of advice, if you’re anything like my friends or me, don’t make big celebratory plans after finishing, because most assuredly you’ll end up going out for a drink or two and then wanting to go home and crash. As tempted as I am to get licensed in other states, I just don’t know if I want to put myself through that again, especially while working. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/30 "2014-07-16T21:30:57Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > IAAL, and I’ll say that, it can be a strategy to try and tie matters up through extensive motions, lawsuits, etc., but most judges (and State Bar Associations) see through these tactics fairly quickly and will impose sanctions and other methods to prevent frivolous filings and lawsuits. You have to remember that such actions don’t just waste the time of both parties, but they affect the judge’s schedule as well. > > I also found it interesting that Trust Fund said he could file lawsuits for free. He must have a pretty sweet deal w/ the county / state if he doesn’t have to pay filing & service fees (as well as the time / money spent on dealing on this pet project when all his attorneys could be focusing on more lucrative endeavors). Granted, I’ve worked for people like this, who will let a grudge consume them beyond all rational actions, but time after time, the obsession has caused more harm than good. > > I know you don’t have a dog in this fight (pun intended), but given the past history of the neighbor’s (and his dogs’) behavior, I can’t see this ending well for Trust Fund. Trust Fund is not the lawyer allegedly making the threat; he’s the alleged recipient of the alleged threat. > [@Calatin](#): > > I didn’t mean to **infer** that you weren’t. I was just trying to provide information for those who are following the thread and might be unfamiliar w/ the acronym. My apologies if I came across otherwise. _Imply_, not _infer_. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/31 "2014-07-16T21:33:18Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Trust Fund is not the lawyer allegedly making the threat; he’s the alleged recipient of the alleged threat. > > _Imply_, not _infer_. _Mea culpa_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Aangelica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Aangelica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aangelica)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/32 "2014-07-16T21:33:22Z")
Mr. TFB is likely to be difficult to bankrupt, but his aggravated neighbor (the partner in a law firm doing the threatening) can certainly give it a go. From the information in the OP, it sounds as though there are plenty of legitimate grounds for civil lawsuits against the TFB (noise, nuisance, aggressive dogs, armed stalking, etc.). The lawyer doing the threatening is certainly well within his rights to file suit against the TFB - his property was damaged, and people in his house were injured, as a result of the TFB’s negligent owning/handling of his dogs (at least arguably as a result). There’s nothing even marginally shady about the lawyer filing a lawsuit under those circumstances. Neither would something like this be wasting the Court’s time - the Annoyed Lawyer has a plenty-colorable claim against the TFB and is totally entitled to sue for damages under the facts presented in the OP. The Court _might_ get cranky if the Annoyed Lawyer starts engaging in obvious strategies that clearly serve no purpose OTHER than to waste time, but that’s going to be tricky to prove and would have to be really pretty egregious before the Court actually _does_ anything about it other than make a request that the Annoyed Lawyer just get on with things. If the lawyer is _really_ aggravated (and willing to eat the cost of filing fees and/or hourly billings by his associates or himself), he can _also_ entirely legitimately offer his services free of charge to any of the neighbors who may also have a legitimate case against the TFB (and it sounds like there may be at least a few from the poor side o’ the street). There are no ethical rules against offering a discounted (or non-existent) rate against a particular defendant that _I’m_ aware of. It’s not usually done, but that’s more of an economic issue than one of professional responsibility. If Mr. Annoyed Lawyer just flat out refuses to settle the case, and is as intensively aggressive about the litigation process as possible, it is not outside the realm of possibility that the TFB would have to come up with TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars just to pay for the fees and costs. Granted, he might have insurance to cover some (or all) of the suits, but if there are, for example, aggressive-dog claims, it’s also possible his insurance just won’t cover that. Insurance often won’t for certain breeds, which leaves TFB paying his lawyers out of pocket for defense. Even if it doesn’t end up costing the TFB all that much, it will _certainly_ cost him, at the minimum, his deductibles and probably negatively affect his insurance premiums. It will _also_ cost him a tremendous amount of inconvenience. Like it or lump it, he’ll have to deal with his lawyers and insurance company with regard to the lawsuit(s) and show up for things like depositions and mandatory settlement conferences and the like. Being a party to a litigation is a huge pain in the ass no matter how you slice it. For what it’s worth, I personally know an attorney who was a partner at a larger law firm who got into a similar ruckus with his new neighbors (it involved unsupervised children, water balloons and latex paint - and a parent who was _really_ offensive when the lawyer was pissed because the neighbor’s precious snowflakes _filled water balloons with latex paint and threw them at the lawyer’s house and car_. Search me how the little bastids got the paint in the balloons in the first place. Turkey baster maybe.) He just forked the matter over to a newer litigation associate and instructed the associate to make the whole experience as heinously expensive and inconvenient as possible for the neighbor. He gave the associate pointers and they had meetings about the matter just like any other case that was assigned to that associate. They used the case for several years as a teaching opportunity - gave CLE lunches about various strategies they used and how effective (or not) they were. The firm wrote off the associate’s time as a CLE expense (since he was legitimately using the experience as research for a series of CLEs), the associate got credit for the time as billable (as CLE time was one of the categories of allowable billable time at that firm), and the partner got the satisfaction of being a giant pain in his neighbor’s ass for quite some time. He claimed that the satisfaction was well worth the hard costs he had to pay out (copies, filing fees, deposition fees, etc.). All told, the hard costs were less than $5,000 over the course of several years. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/33 "2014-07-16T22:02:39Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > One of my favorite memories was announcing in court that I needed to be excused from jury duty on the case at hand because I knew things about the lawyer for the defense that made me wholly incapable of being impartial. My father had a story kind of like that. He was called for duty (he somehow managed to get called like five times in his life, and seated three times, while a lot of people I know are never even called once), and during voir dire, the defense attorney was asking all of the men if it would bias them against his client that the attorney from the DA’s office was a very attractive women (this was in the 70s, and women in the DAs office were kinda new). My father said No, but it might bias him against his client that his attorney would ask such an offensive question. My father was dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/34 "2014-07-16T22:19:11Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Oh, I feel your pain and completely understand, believe me. How long is it for you? Ours was 15 hours, spread over three days (3 hours on the first, 6 each on the other two). > > Word of advice, if you’re anything like my friends or me, don’t make big celebratory plans after finishing, because most assuredly you’ll end up going out for a drink or two and then wanting to go home and crash. 12 hours spread over two days. I’m very confident about the MBE and :dubious: about the Florida day. One of our friends (who graduated a semester early and passed the bar in February) is parking her boat\* next to the convention center and we are all planning to hop on board and get drunk, then crash on the boat. \*Her husband is already wealthy; she didn’t make boat money in her first three months in practice or anything. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/35 "2014-07-16T22:29:25Z")
IANAL, neither am I a builder, but I wonder a couple of things: 1. What did the police do, if anything, about the dogs’ attack? It seems to me that a 911 call would be in order, and if the dogs were still in the house, they would have been, at the very least, restrained in some way. (By the way, how did the attack end? _Was_ it a 911 response? Did TFB come in and call them off? The dogs just left? That cat from the YouTube video a while back leap into action? Or what?) And what has happened to the dogs since? 2. How big are the dogs? It just seems to me that an expensive house ought to have a door that can withstand dogs jumping at it. Or was it a glass door or a screen door? ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/36 "2014-07-16T22:37:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 12 hours spread over two days. I’m very confident about the MBE and :dubious: about the Florida day. > > One of our friends (who graduated a semester early and passed the bar in February) is parking her boat\* next to the convention center and we are all planning to hop on board and get drunk, then crash on the boat. > > \*Her husband is already wealthy; she didn’t make boat money in her first three months in practice or anything. 😃 In TX, the essays are a crapshoot. Not sure if you did BarBri (odds are, you did), but they spend a considerable amount of time going over tests from years before. I remember seeing some prior Property questions and thinking how I could ace them, and then I saw the essay from the next test and was perplexed. I will say, my favorite question was about Commercial Paper, where I basically had to list 6 items, and that was the entire answer to the question. At first, I thought you weer going to say that you were all crashing in the boat on the two nights before the test days. They were (and actually always are) doing construction near where we had our exam, and so some of my friends decided to get hotel rooms for the three nights - to avoid traffic / mishaps / ensure extra studying time / etc. One of my friends (genius guy - Order of the Coif and all that, but no social skills; he didn’t receive a single second interview from OCIs, and he met w/ pretty much every major firm that was there) had a live-in girlfriend who was just as weird. When he came back after the three-day absence, he discovered she’d moved out and taken their cat. They reconciled a few months later, but it just struck us as such a horrible thing to come home to, after the mental hell of the past three months (or three years). The boat plan sounds amazing! I wish my friends would’ve done something like that (if we could’ve even stayed awake), but after two beers, we were done. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/37 "2014-07-17T01:21:25Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > One of my friends (genius guy - Order of the Coif and all that, but no social skills; he didn’t receive a single second interview from OCIs, and he met w/ pretty much every major firm that was there) had a live-in girlfriend who was just as weird. When he came back after the three-day absence, he discovered she’d moved out and taken their cat. They reconciled a few months later, but it just struck us as such a horrible thing to come home to, after the mental hell of the past three months (or three years). Though you don’t know what fresh hell he put the girlfriend through … ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/38 "2014-07-17T10:15:55Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I have to wonder whether the story may have grown in the telling. It’s not like one needs a whole bag of tricks to pursue successful legal action against an owner when a dog with a history of biting breaks into one’s house and attacks people. This is quite possible, given the second (or maybe third) hand nature of the recounting (hanging out on the deck over a few beers). I’m pretty sure something like that was said, though. > [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Personally, I’m hoping lawyer-guy offers pro-bono legal representation to everyone that this asshole has wronged. You might get your wish, although not in the way you’d expect. I’ve gotten an update, and it appears things aren’t looking good for TFB. He’s apparently somewhat of a police hanger-on\* (groupie?). I don’t know the name for it, but a loser who can’t make the force, but hangs around them to try and be part of the LEO crowd. Again, this is through a grapevine, but it seems he’d been taking the “buddies with the cops” act a little too far, and some of the low income side thought he actually _was_ a deputy (apparently he’s been wearing a sort of uniform and performing his own “arrests”). This may be part of their reluctance to summon police over earlier incidents. According to my kin (via courthouse rumor mill) an “investigation” has been started into this mess. This is getting really interesting. \*Is this a common thing? Do police have to contend with wannabees hanging around trying to be part of the action? ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/39 "2014-07-17T12:57:02Z")
Maybe Trust law is different in the US but in my jurisdiction, trust funds belong to the Trustees until such time as they vest in the beneficiary. So bankrupting a beneficiary would be of no consequence because that person only gets an income or lumps of capital as and when the Trustees decide. That is the point of a trust - to keep the capital out of the hands of beneficiaries who can fritter it away. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262/40 "2014-07-17T13:02:51Z")
I think the OP is using “trust fund baby” in the sense of a wealthy spoiled brat. I very much doubt he knows the specifics of his finances. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-folks-can-attorneys-really-do-this/693262.md?page=3)