# \[Legal\] How to fight smelly accusations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 29, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448 "2008-01-29T13:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omoikane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c4cdca/32.png) [@Omoikane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omoikane)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/1 "2008-01-29T13:58:33Z")
So my friend recently (Jan 4-6) stayed in the fine town of Sherbrooke, Quebec, for the annual Med Games. He and the rest of his classmates (med school) slept in the 2-star _Hotel Le President_. He just got his Visa statement today, and saw that he had been hit with a $225 charge for “smoking damages” to his room. Now my friend does not smoke, and hates smoking, and he is 100% innocent of this, but when he tried to protest to the hotel’s administrator, he got this response: > [@](#): > > Hi Mr Chong, > > I was at the hotel and the door of your room was open > > I saw it and smell it . That’s the evidence > > Best regards So, what can you do in this situation? ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/2 "2008-01-29T14:00:42Z")
Call the credit card company and reverse the charges. Let the hotel fight it out with Visa. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/3 "2008-01-29T17:36:13Z")
Definitely reject the Visa charge. Also write a letter along these lines: Dear Hotel manager: I do not smoke. I never have smoked. I did not smoke when in Room xxx, nor did anyone else during my stay there. I categorically reject the assertion that I am responsible for any sort of damage to this room. To my certain knowledge, anyone who says otherwise is either mistaken or lying. I have instructed my bank not to honor any false charge for damages. If at any time I am asked about the _Hotel Le President_ you can rely on me to accurately describe how I have been treated. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/4 "2008-01-29T17:52:32Z")
**Xema** , that’s beautiful. I have to wonder, though… was “Mr. Chong” in his room the whole time? Did any of the other occupants smoke while he wasn’t there, unbeknownst to him? How much, if any, notice did Mr. Chong have that it was a nonsmoking room, or that such steep charges would be imposed if anyone smoked? ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/5 "2008-01-29T18:06:47Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] **Xema** , that’s beautiful. I have to wonder, though… was “Mr. Chong” in his room the whole time? Did any of the other occupants smoke while he wasn’t there, unbeknownst to him? [/QUOTE] I’m a smoker, and I’m pretty sure a non-smoker would notice if someone had smoked in their room, even if they weren’t present at the time. Cigarette smoke stinks! ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/6 "2008-01-29T18:08:23Z")
This sounds like some form of a scam or embezzlement since you entrusted him with your credit card information and he charged something extra on there without permission or notification beforehand. I wonder how many other people he does this to during their stays with him? Not to sound rude, but they are called dives for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/7 "2008-01-29T18:53:21Z")
As others have said, have Visa do a chargeback. They don’t deserve the money and will put the hotel under scrutiny from Visa. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/8 "2008-01-29T19:17:28Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] **Xema** I have to wonder, though… was “Mr. Chong” in his room the whole time? [/QUOTE] Or did Mr. Cheech stop by too, perhaps explaining the smoking? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/9 "2008-01-29T19:25:08Z")
I would wonder why I had not been confronted with the evidence of smoking at the time it was detected. ---
**Author:** ![Omoikane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c4cdca/32.png) [@Omoikane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omoikane)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/10 "2008-01-30T02:58:46Z")
Visa says that it’s too hard to prove, and that the “merchant will just bounce it back”. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/11 "2008-01-30T05:10:03Z")
> [@](#): > > I was at the hotel and the door of your room was open > > I saw it and smell it . That’s the evidence If it goes to court, plead the maxim “_qui id olfecit, ipse fecit_” ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/12 "2008-01-30T05:27:34Z")
Ask Visa who their damn client is. Then tell Visa, “Not me anymore, because you won’t back me when you know I’m being defrauded, and you’re being used to help them do it. Cancel my card.” Or, start going up the chain at Visa until you get someone with more than just a knee jerk reaction. Otherwise, consider filing a small claims action against the hotel. (Note: everything I know about Canadian law would not fill a thimble. Don’t rely on this as legal advice. It isn’t. I’m not your lawyer, or even qualified to be your lawyer, and you’re not my client.) Notify the BBB and the local DA’s fraud department (or the Canadian equivalent of the same). Find out if other people also have been fraudulently charged. You could have a class action! ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/13 "2008-01-30T05:56:31Z")
AFAIK the merchant cannot simply “bounce it back.” They have a chance to tell their side of the story, but ultimately the credit card company usually seems to side with the customer. I’ve seen them enforce a chargeback even when the customer hasn’t returned the item in question to the business! Like Campion said, have your friend call again and insist on a chargeback, and be prepared to cancel the credit card if they won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Gatorade\_Brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gatorade\_Brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatorade_Brain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/14 "2008-01-30T07:25:01Z")
[QUOTE=Campion] Notify the BBB and the local DA’s fraud department [/QUOTE] BBB is useless. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/15 "2008-01-30T10:38:23Z")
Two guys names Vinny. ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/16 "2008-01-30T12:48:15Z")
Also make sure you keep copies of any letters you send and receive. Make it clear to the lying hotel dude that you’re not a push-over and you’re not going away. Often that’s enough to get a scammer to back off. Scammer’s don’t like attention. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/17 "2008-01-30T15:24:34Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] Two guys names Vinny. [/QUOTE] Once again, proof that the Canadian legal system and the US legal system have something in common. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/18 "2008-01-30T15:42:43Z")
[QUOTE=Omoikane] Visa says that it’s too hard to prove, and that the “merchant will just bounce it back”. [/QUOTE] Ok, then either this is a hypothetical or Mr. Chong didn’t do it right. There’s no way he got a valid response from Visa in 24 hours. The reversal of charges needs to be in writing, and mailed, not email or phone. Then they’ll automatically do a chargeback, there’s no real discretion here. They do the chargeback, and ask the hotel to prove that the charges are valid. Also in writing, by mail. If Visa is saying that all this is resolved in 24 hours, then whomever is on the line is just wrong, and Mr. Chong needs to speak to a supervisor. These things take time. This post is based on my experience with Visa as a vendor in the US, so take it for what it’s worth. Maybe they do things differently in their Canadian offices. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/19 "2008-01-30T15:43:38Z")
[QUOTE=Astroboy14] I’m a smoker, and I’m pretty sure a non-smoker would notice if someone had smoked in their room, even if they weren’t present at the time. Cigarette smoke stinks! [/QUOTE] Yes, but if you are around smokers a lot I believe the smell becomes less noticeable, unless its fresh. Unless the 225.00 penalty is posted somewhere, I’d also ask what the fee encompassed other than opening a window and maybe spraying a half can of air freshener- surely they don’t expect you to believe they called in a company to fumigate the room? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448/20 "2008-01-30T16:04:56Z")
[QUOTE=control-z] AFAIK the merchant cannot simply “bounce it back.” They have a chance to tell their side of the story, but ultimately the credit card company usually seems to side with the customer. I’ve seen them enforce a chargeback even when the customer hasn’t returned the item in question to the business! [/QUOTE] Credit cards companies, in fact, are usually very aggressive with retailers about chargebacks; they will likely assess a small service free to the customer but unless there’s outright, provable sneakery on the part of the customer there is not a doubt in my mind whatsoever VISA will charge this back. My wife’s business deals with chargebacks all the time and VISA, Amex and Mastercard show them no mercy whatsoever. If a customer challenges something they need to absolutely prove it to prevent the chargeback. And if a retailer gets too many chargebacks, their credit card fees can go up. So to the OP: 1. Contact the hotel and threaten them with a chargeback. This, usually, will resolve the problem. They know how hard it is to fight chargebacks. 2. If that doesn’t work, start the chargeback. VISA may put up some light initial resistance (well, I guess they have anyway) but if you insist they will do it. You’ll get your money back. 3. Tell everyone the hotel sucks and write nasty reviews online anyway. They’re liars and deserve it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-how-to-fight-smelly-accusations/435448.md?page=2)