# Legal murder, theft, drug use. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 13, 1999, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956 "1999-07-13T19:14:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 1999, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/1 "1999-07-13T19:14:00Z")
As US citezens, are we subject to US laws based on our citezenship or do we leave US law behind when we leave US soil? Let me illustrate to make things clearer. Lets say I cruise my yacht out to meet some Columbian pals in international waters. I hop on their boat, do a bunch of drugs, get crazy, whack a few of them, grab their cash and hi-tail it back to US water. I know the state department is not gonna be happy, but am I in trouble with the justice department? * * * [Insert Clever Quote Here] ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 1999, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/2 "1999-07-13T19:29:00Z")
I think that in non-territorial waters, the country of the victims has the right to try you for murder. The US Dept. of State would be contacted as soon as Colombia indicts you and sends an extradition request to them. The US Marshall services and perhaps the FBI or other US police forces would have the power to arrest and hold you until DOS grants or denies Colombia’s request. (They might deny it if they and/or your lawyer make a good case that you’d be unjustly tried and punished in Colombia.) If it’s denied, you’d still be indictable in US courts. I’m not sure what would happen if you’ve fled to a third country that won’t extradict you to either US or Colombia. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 1999, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/3 "1999-07-13T19:48:00Z")
A related question. If I travel to a region where I partake in a legal activity which is illegal here in the U.S. am I at risk when I return ? Can my employer or issuer of my security clearance persecute me ? Oblio ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 1999, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/4 "1999-07-13T20:27:00Z")
Security Clearance?! What were you doing, Oblio, handing over nuclear secrets? falcon2, I think generally, you have to abide by the laws of whatever country you are visiting. On the high seas, there is a whole set of “admiralty laws” that apply; you could be charged with piracy, of all things, if you stole anything from the Colombian’s boat. I think admiralty laws can be enforced by any nation, but I’m not a lawyer. Even if I were, admiralty law is, as you might suspect, a specialty. Of course, with Colombian victims, you’d almost certainly be handed over to them for trial no matter what violations your own country could charge you with. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 1999, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/5 "1999-07-13T20:57:00Z")
Falcon, I suggest you do some reading on diplomatic immunity * * * Formerly known as Nec3f on the AOL SDMB ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 1999, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/6 "1999-07-13T21:01:00Z")
I think murder is pretty much illegal all over the world, but if you smoke pot in Amsterdam you’re not going to be busted upon return to the states. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 1999, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/7 "1999-07-13T22:12:00Z")
Ask our current President. He stated he had never violated the laws of our country. Then when pressed, admitted to smoking marijuana while in England. (The infamous “But I didn’t inhale” speech) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 1999, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/8 "1999-07-13T22:28:00Z")
i dont think you ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 1999, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/9 "1999-07-13T22:29:00Z")
i dont think you shoudl do drugs and get crazy and grab ther cash i think you h ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 1999, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/10 "1999-07-14T01:28:00Z")
## Let me illustrate to make things clearer. Lets say I cruise my yacht out to meet some Columbian pals in international waters. I hop on their boat, do a bunch of drugs, get crazy, whack a few of them, grab their cash and hi-tail it back to US water. I know the state department is not gonna be happy, but am I in trouble with the justice department? No, but you’ll probably be in trouble with the ‘already been there and done that’ Hollywood pitch men. And you say you only got the cash? Fool. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 1999, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/11 "1999-07-14T02:01:00Z")
I am pretty sure from my reading once of some treaty on the International Law of the Sea (signed at Montego Bay, Jamaica), that if you commit a crime in international waters, you would be tried for it in your own country, not the victim’s country. It sort of makes more sense that way. If you are committing a crime like drug trafficking, you don’t really have a “victim’s” country. If you murder someone, I’m sure your country will be just as eager to convict as you the victim’s country. Now if the CIA tries to bump off Castro in international waters, I’m staying out of it. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 1999, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/12 "1999-07-14T02:55:00Z")
We’ve been down this road before in the thread about citizenship. How and by whom you get tried, if at all, depends on the laws of the country or countries interested in taking you to trial. There’s a current events real-life example right now: that youngster who is on trial in Israel for the murder of someone in the United States. He’s being tried there because Israeli law allowed him to claim Israeli citizenship and that country’s laws also prohibit extraditing Israeli citizens. To answer the OP’s query, go to [www.state.gov](http://www.state.gov) and search for “know before you go.” ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 1999, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/13 "1999-07-14T04:18:00Z")
what if all parties aboard the boat had renounced citizenship to their homelands and were not citizens in any country? * * * Fippo- the very model of a modern major general ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 1999, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/14 "1999-07-14T06:54:00Z")
One more twist: it depends on the US statute being violated. Some statutes apply to American conduct overseas (and their subsequent return) such as money laundering. Some even skirt diplomatic immunity to some extent: certain int’l treaties, such as nuclear or endangered species related, are by nature a violation of an international law, with enabling legislation in member countries. * * * “Proverbs for Paranoids, 1: You may never get to touch the Master, but you can tickle his creatures.” - T.Pynchon, _Gravity’s Rainbow_. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 1999, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-murder-theft-drug-use/1956/15 "1999-07-14T15:32:00Z")
In any case, what is being described comes under the heading of “Piracy on the high seas”. Offhand, I believe that makes you fair game for any nation that catches you. * * * John W. Kennedy “Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.” – Charles Williams