# Legal permanent residents being stopped at the border **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431 "2017-01-28T20:51:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/21 "2017-01-29T02:01:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not just green cards, folks. > [It also applies to full-blown citizens with dual citizenship from the listed countries.](http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-visa-ban-also-applies-to-citizens-with-dual-nationality-state-department-says-1485628654?) This is fucking _insane!_ That can’t possibly be legal, can it? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/22 "2017-01-29T02:01:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not just green cards, folks. > [It also applies to full-blown citizens with dual citizenship from the listed countries.](http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-visa-ban-also-applies-to-citizens-with-dual-nationality-state-department-says-1485628654?) This is fucking _insane!_ That’s behind a paywall for me, but other googling suggests that it’s not US dual citizens, but other countries’ dual citizens (say, France and Yemen) that are banned. US dual citizens can still get in on their US passport. Still an incredibly inhumane and unAmerican policy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/23 "2017-01-29T02:01:39Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > So, stopping permanent residents returning with an executive order that was purportedly to prevent terrorists immigrating… > > Is this a bug or feature? It’s a hostile hacking of the system. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/24 "2017-01-29T02:02:53Z")
Don’t you know that The Donald is LOVING the fact that once again, he is in every headline in every media outlet in the world. And to have so many people objecting and opposing him must make him feel strong and powerful. I can see him staring at his hands as he flexes them, stretching the fingers and then making them into fists. "_Yeah, they are big, strong hands! Giant hands. The biggest hands in the world. With them I can keep people out of the country… or let them in by crooking my yuuuuge pinkie. Quick! Bring me another Executive Order to sign!"_ > [@alphaboi867](#): > > That can’t possibly be legal, can it? :eek: Who cares? You got a problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/25 "2017-01-29T02:04:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s behind a paywall for me, but other googling suggests that it’s not US dual citizens, but other countries’ dual citizens (say, France and Yemen) that are banned. US dual citizens can still get in on their US passport. > > Still an incredibly inhumane and unAmerican policy. You may be right. The entire article from The Wall Street Journal consisted of > [@](#): > > BAGHDAD, Iraq—Citizens of the seven countries identified by President Donald Trump for a 90-day visa ban who hold dual nationality also will be barred from entering the United States, State Department officials said Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/26 "2017-01-29T02:04:15Z")
Federal District Court grants nation-wide stay of the ban. [https://www.google.ca/amp/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2017/1/28/14427086/federal-court-halts-trumps-immigration-ban?client=safari](https://www.google.ca/amp/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2017/1/28/14427086/federal-court-halts-trumps-immigration-ban?client=safari) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/27 "2017-01-29T02:27:32Z")
I got another link about the same thing: [A Federal Judge Just Issued a Stay Against Donald Trump’s “Muslim Ban” – Mother Jones](http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/muslim-ban-federal-court) Looks like it didn’t take long to get that class action suit filed! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/28 "2017-01-29T02:52:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Federal District Court grants nation-wide stay of the ban. > > [Federal court halts Trump’s immigration ban - The Verge](https://www.google.ca/amp/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2017/1/28/14427086/federal-court-halts-trumps-immigration-ban?client=safari) From my reading of this, the government is prohibited from deporting those who have arrived or were en route as of the filing of the complaint. It would not be of help to anyone who was traveling back to the U.S. tomorrow, for example. Further, it only prohibits deportation, it does not say that they must be released. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/29 "2017-01-29T02:58:49Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > But Christmas will be safe this year, right? It will be mandatory. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/30 "2017-01-29T03:31:36Z")
I have been frustrated by “my side’s” knee-jerk reactions to every little twit-fit that the attention seeking President Preschooler spits out … this though is now something he has actually done, a likely illegal something that hopefully will not stand … but a horrific something. To some few Republicans’ credits there are [some beginning to speak out](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/paul-ryan-trumps-refugee-ban-does-not-target-muslims/2017/01/28/e0cf1fe4-e56e-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?utm_term=.3ccde425aba5) against it. To great shame their leadership is not among them. Mostly you have to look for it to come from those with large Muslim populations in their districts and the likes of Evan McMullin: > [@](#): > > … Evan McMullin, a former CIA officer and House GOP policy director who waged an independent presidential bid in 2016, was one of a small number of Republicans to publicly oppose the ban. McMullin tweeted a photo of the Statue of Liberty on Saturday morning, and was promptly mocked by the white nationalist Richard Spencer. > > “That’s who they’re in league with — white supremacists and white nationalists,” McMullin said in an interview. “I’m not expecting much opposition from the vast majority of Republicans in Congress. There is anti-Muslim bigotry at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue and it fundamentally un-American and tangibly damaging to our national security and strength.” > > Most Republicans, McMullin predicted, would decline to criticize the executive orders. “Those who are silent on this will be defined by that silence,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/31 "2017-01-29T03:50:11Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > … > To some few Republicans’ credits there are [some beginning to speak out](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/paul-ryan-trumps-refugee-ban-does-not-target-muslims/2017/01/28/e0cf1fe4-e56e-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?utm_term=.3ccde425aba5) against it. To great shame their leadership is not among them. Mostly you have to look for it to come from those with large Muslim populations in their districts and the likes of Evan McMullin: > > > [@](#): > > > > … Evan McMullin, a former CIA officer and House GOP policy director who waged an independent presidential bid in 2016, was one of a small number of Republicans to publicly oppose the ban. McMullin tweeted a photo of the Statue of Liberty on Saturday morning, and was promptly mocked by the white nationalist Richard Spencer. > > > > “That’s who they’re in league with — white supremacists and white nationalists,” McMullin said in an interview. “I’m not expecting much opposition from the vast majority of Republicans in Congress. There is anti-Muslim bigotry at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue and it fundamentally un-American and tangibly damaging to our national security and strength.” > > > > Most Republicans, McMullin predicted, would decline to criticize the executive orders. “Those who are silent on this will be defined by that silence,” he said. Thank goodness someone is speaking up! Holy crap, how can these gutless representatives remain silent in the face of this bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/32 "2017-01-29T03:54:12Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Thank goodness someone is speaking up! > > Holy crap, how can these gutless representatives remain silent in the face of this bullshit. Because they know that their demented, inbred “base” thinks this is wonderful. I’ve been perusing online news article comments tonight and I’m about ready to throw up blood, that’s how sick the Trumpies’ celebration of this EO has been. There are some really horrible people on the right… ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/33 "2017-01-29T04:03:37Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Because they know that their demented, inbred “base” thinks this is wonderful. I’ve been perusing online news article comments tonight and I’m about ready to throw up blood, that’s how sick the Trumpies’ celebration of this EO has been. There are some really horrible people on the right… ☹ I know you’re right, and it makes me so sad and so angry. And sleepless. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/34 "2017-01-29T05:42:11Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Federal District Court grants nation-wide stay of the ban. > > [Federal court halts Trump’s immigration ban - The Verge](https://www.google.ca/amp/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2017/1/28/14427086/federal-court-halts-trumps-immigration-ban?client=safari) Of the ban _in toto_? That’s not my reading. Looks like only a small subset, people who were in transit when it took effect. And only as to deportation. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/35 "2017-01-29T06:11:26Z")
The ban on dual citizens doesn’t apply to US citizens with dual citizenship, it applies to citizens of the evil countries he’s banning who are also dual citizens of \*other \*countries. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/36 "2017-01-29T07:11:45Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > In case anyone was confused, this is was an actual “war on religion” looks like. Despite being a lazy homebody, I’m almost willing to get out there and protest (except I just found out about this and it’s already been “resolved”). But no, this is not what a war on religion looks like. The 30 Years War was a war on religion and this is what it looked like: > **[Thirty Years' War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War#/media/File:The_Hanging_by_Jacques_Callot.jpg)** > > The Thirty Years' War,\[j\] from 1618 to 1648, was one of the most destructive conflicts in European history. Fought primarily in Central Europe, an estimated 4.5 to 8 million soldiers and civilians died from the effects of battle, famine, or disease, while parts of Germany reported population declines of over 50%. Related conflicts include the Eighty Years' War, the War of the Mantuan Succession, the Franco-Spanish War, the Torstenson War, the Dutch-Portuguese War, and the Portuguese Restorati Certainly, this would be a first step in that direction. But let’s save the extreme proclamations for once we get there. This is a tragedy and a disgrace. But it’s not (yet) a war on religion. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/37 "2017-01-29T08:52:43Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Despite being a lazy homebody, I’m almost willing to get out there and protest (except I just found out about this and it’s already been “resolved”). But no, this is not what a war on religion looks like… > This is a tragedy and a disgrace. But it’s not (yet) a war on religion. “Resolved”? Due to a judge’s temporary order, a _very tiny_ subset of the people affected will be kept locked up in detention instead of being deported immediately. Persons with American visas who hadn’t yet boarded their plane are having their tickets ripped up at the country of departure. The Holocaust didn’t begin with gas ovens or even the “Night of Broken Glass.” It began with racist rhetoric, denied employments, and state-sponsored incitement of thugs to beat up the “inferior” people. I loathe Trump fervently, but thought Godwinizing him was hyperbolic. Yet, tragedy strikes before he’s even warmed up the shitter in the Oval Office. :eek: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/38 "2017-01-29T09:02:41Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > “Resolved”? Due to a judge’s temporary order, a _very tiny_ subset of the people affected will be kept locked up in detention instead of being deported immediately. Persons with American visas who hadn’t yet boarded their plane are having their tickets ripped up at the country of departure. So I’ve discovered since writing my post. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/39 "2017-01-29T09:10:55Z")
While we may have a POtuS that aspires to be a dictator, videos like these give me hope that America will not accept it. [http://usuncut.com/resistance/watch-protesters-welcome-refugees/](http://usuncut.com/resistance/watch-protesters-welcome-refugees/) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/40 "2017-01-29T10:23:32Z")
**rat avatar** ’s link is just a click away from: [QUOTE=[AcehGround - Berita Aceh Terkini dan Terbaru Hari Ini](http://usuncut.com/politics/psychologists-explain-what-trumps-constant-lying-does-to-our-brains)] The human mind suffers when faced with a constant barrage of lying, as leading psychologists have discovered, and lies are eventually accepted as truth. … the mind can eventually be worn down, as a human being only has a certain capacity to evaluate the veracity of every statement it hears. This means that when exposed to enough lying for a long period of time, the human brain will be slowly incapable of discerning fact from fiction. The brain, [Harvard psychologist Daniel] Gilbert wrote, “[W]hen faced with shortages of time, energy, or conclusive evidence, may fail to unaccept the ideas that they involuntarily accept during comprehension.” In the 1970s, a team of psychologists from Temple University and Villanova University … discovered illusory truth when presenting a group of people with a set of statements two evaluate as true or false over a period of two weeks. The psychologists found that when presenting the group with the same false statements, they were more likely to be rated as true when confronted with the lie the second and third times. As Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels famously stated, “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” The Hasher/Goldstein/Toppino study appears to provide the empirical evidence to support that claim. With Donald Trump in office for the next four years — who, according to Politico, lied once every three minutes and 15 seconds over five hours of speeches and press conferences — this can only spell trouble for the American brain as it struggles to comprehend what’s true and what’s false. As Politifact confirmed, 69 percent of Trump’s statements fact-checked during the campaign season were either rated “mostly false,” “false,” or “pants on fire.” Only 16 percent of his statements were rated “true” or “mostly true.” [/QUOTE] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431.md?page=3)