# Legal permanent residents being stopped at the border **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431 "2017-01-28T20:51:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/61 "2017-01-29T17:36:26Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He’ll have to convince judges that he isn’t discriminating against a particular religion – AFAIK that is illegal. But it’s not illegal to subject people from areas of concern to extended vetting or even banning them outright. Probably no more illegal than it is to prohibit Americans from traveling to Cuba. It just has to follow the law and the constitution. Other than that, the prez can pretty much bar anyone he wants. As noted, those countries are already on some sort of “heightened watch” list, so maybe that’s why the ban was not extended beyond them-- to get around any possible claim that it’s religion based. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/62 "2017-01-29T20:28:35Z")
The director of an Oscar-nominated Best Foreign Language Picture will not be allowed to attend the Academy Awards because he’s Iranian. He has already won one Oscar for Best Foreign Language Picture. There was a one hour work stoppage among taxi drivers to and from JFK airport last night (the majority of the drivers in the organization involved are Muslim, apparently). Uber proudly announced that they would be taking up the slack and would not charge extra for the privilege. There is now a boycott Uber movement. In response, the CEO of Lyft has donated $1 million to the ACLU. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/63 "2017-01-29T21:29:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Green card holders may not be citizens, but they are Americans. They have a right to be in this country. Not Americans, but a credit to the United States who were vetted and found to be someone who not only would improve the country by their presence and who the government hoped would become a citizen of the US. Until they got screwed over by that government. Here’s what I’m wondering about Trump’s next executive order on the issue: will he explicitly refer to the infamous “No, No” questions the interned Americans during World War Two were subjected to. After all, Trump’s people already touted EO 9066 as a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/64 "2017-01-29T21:41:37Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The director of an Oscar-nominated Best Foreign Language Picture will not be allowed to attend the Academy Awards because he’s Iranian. He has already won one Oscar for Best Foreign Language Picture. > > There was a one hour work stoppage among taxi drivers to and from JFK airport last night (the majority of the drivers in the organization involved are Muslim, apparently). Uber proudly announced that they would be taking up the slack and would not charge extra for the privilege. There is now a boycott Uber movement. In response, the CEO of Lyft has donated $1 million to the ACLU. Looks like Uber really wants to change its name to “Uber Alles”. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/65 "2017-01-29T21:49:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He’ll have to convince judges that he isn’t discriminating against a particular religion – AFAIK that is illegal. But it’s not illegal to subject people from areas of concern to extended vetting or even banning them outright. Probably no more illegal than it is to prohibit Americans from traveling to Cuba. It just has to follow the law and the constitution. Other than that, the prez can pretty much bar anyone he wants. IANAL but [according to this one from Cato, writing in the NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/opinion/trumps-immigration-ban-is-illegal.html?ref=opinion), it would be illegal to discriminate based on country alone. > [@](#): > > … More than 50 years ago, Congress outlawed such discrimination against immigrants based on national origin. … The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 banned all discrimination against immigrants on the basis of national origin, replacing the old prejudicial system and giving each country an equal shot at the quotas. In signing the new law, President Lyndon B. Johnson said that “the harsh injustice” of the national-origins quota system had been “abolished.” > > Nonetheless, Mr. Trump asserts that he still has the power to discriminate, pointing to a 1952 law that allows the president the ability to “suspend the entry” of “any class of aliens” that he finds are detrimental to the interest of the United States. > > But the president ignores the fact that Congress then restricted this power in 1965, stating plainly that no person could be “discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person’s race, sex, nationality, place of birth or place of residence.” The only exceptions are those provided for by Congress (such as the preference for Cuban asylum seekers). > > When Congress passed the 1965 law, it wished to protect not just immigrants, but also American citizens, who should have the right to sponsor their family members or to marry a foreign-born spouse without being subject to pointless discrimination. … ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/66 "2017-01-29T22:10:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > … And the crazy part about it is it doesn’t really make logical sense. Iran, but not Saudi Arabia or Pakistan? Both of which have been the source of folks committing actual acts of significant violence in the US. … The choice of nations on the Trump list is nothing whatsoever to do with the safety and security of the USA. The choice of nations on the Trump list was made by asking the question: Does Trump have business interests in this nation? If so, it doesn’t go on the list. > [@](#): > > Now, one aspect of the new policy that has drawn notice are countries that are not on the list, including Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates. And those are the countries of origin of a number of people who carried out terrorist attacks in the U.S. starting with September 11, 2001. Those countries also happen to be places where President Trump and his family have business interests. [Countries Listed On Trump's Refugee Ban Don't Include Those He Has Business With : NPR](http://www.npr.org/2017/01/28/512199324/countries-listed-on-trumps-refugee-ban-dont-include-those-he-has-business-with) > [@asahi](#): > > He’ll have to convince judges that he isn’t discriminating against a particular religion – AFAIK that is illegal. … The Trump edict specifically exempts Christians from the ban on entry: > [@](#): > > The order seeks to prioritize refugees fleeing religious persecution, a move Trump separately said was aimed at helping Christians in Syria. That led some legal experts to question whether the order was constitutional. [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-refugees-idUSKBN15B2HL](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-refugees-idUSKBN15B2HL) Shame on any elected Republicans who remain silent on this. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/67 "2017-01-29T22:25:18Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The Trump edict specifically exempts Christians from the ban on entry [Six Christians just got sent back under the ban](http://www.vox.com/2017/1/29/14429844/trump-christians-refugee-ban?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp). ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/68 "2017-01-29T22:42:27Z")
Dubai is threatening to deport all US citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/69 "2017-01-29T22:45:47Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Dubai is threatening to deport all US citizens. I would feel bad for those people, but the world reacting strongly against Trump may hasten the end of the American public’s taste for incompetent leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/70 "2017-01-30T05:36:08Z")
Two men opened fire on a mosque in Quebec City as prayers were ending. Five dead. Both men in custody. > **[Suspect in deadly Canadian mosque shooting charged with six counts of murder](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/29/multiple-people-reported-shot-by-gunmen-at-quebec-city-mosque/?postshare=2571485754362475&tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.ce5ba7167d69)** > > Six men were killed and at least 19 people were injured in the attack at the Quebec Islamic Cultural Center on Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/71 "2017-01-30T11:38:10Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > IANAL but [according to this one from Cato, writing in the NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/opinion/trumps-immigration-ban-is-illegal.html?ref=opinion), it would be illegal to discriminate based on country alone. I respect CATO and they might know something I don’t, but I’m not sure their article is completely accurate. It might be true that the text of the law aims to bar outright bans based solely on national origin absent of any particular reason for doing so. The law was written at a time when immigration clearly discriminated against Asians and other non-whites without any real security justification outlined. But at the same time, if immigrants are coming from an anarchic war zone like Syria, I don’t think it’s necessarily out of a president’s domain to impose a de facto ban, or at minimum to subject them to extensive vetting. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/72 "2017-01-30T11:39:16Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Dubai is threatening to deport all US citizens. I suspect that more of this is coming. It is going to be more difficult for Americans to travel and do business abroad. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/73 "2017-01-30T11:48:17Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Shame on any elected Republicans who remain silent on this. Most of them will continue to be very silent on this. As I feared even before the election, republicans see this as the white man’s last stand, or more specifically the white christian man’s last stand. They know demographics aren’t working in their favor, so the last chance to save the white christian America they know is to find creative ways to prevent blacks from voting, prevent more immigrants from coming into the country, expel visa holders and residents so that they don’t become citizens, and lastly, intimidate anyone who gets in their way. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/74 "2017-01-30T12:29:21Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > But Christmas will be safe this year, right? Hahahahaha hahahaha, no. Not remotely. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/75 "2017-01-30T12:32:01Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > [Six Christians just got sent back under the ban](http://www.vox.com/2017/1/29/14429844/trump-christians-refugee-ban?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp). And it looks like [Federal officials are ignoring the Courts that are _supposed_ to be the last word on what is and isn’t legal.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-courts-constitutional-crisis_us_588ea5bfe4b0176377953710?) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/76 "2017-01-30T18:24:41Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > [Six Christians just got sent back under the ban](http://www.vox.com/2017/1/29/14429844/trump-christians-refugee-ban?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp). At least one Yazidi whose husband was already in the USA was stopped before she got on the plane in Iraq. > **[A Yazidi Refugee, Stranded at the Airport by Trump](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-yazidi-refugee-stranded-at-the-airport-by-trump)** > > Trump’s asylum moratorium has stranded the wife of a former Iraq war interpreter who planned to join her husband in the U.S. on Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/77 "2017-01-30T19:49:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And it looks like [Federal officials are ignoring the Courts that are _supposed_ to be the last word on what is and isn’t legal.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-courts-constitutional-crisis_us_588ea5bfe4b0176377953710?) So it’s here: the end of the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/78 "2017-01-30T20:50:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The usual Trump defenders on this board are noticeably absent from this thread. Is it possible that their hero did something they’re not 100% on board with? If it keeps Justin Beiber out of the US I’m all for it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/79 "2017-01-30T20:53:42Z")
Trump is quietly increasing the size of CBP by thousands of officers. They’re not going to defy him; they’re going to be his personal police. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/80 "2017-01-30T21:04:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Trump is quietly increasing the size of CBP by thousands of officers. They’re not going to defy him; they’re going to be his personal police. I know there are readers here who skip posts like mine that reference a Trump grab for permanent power. “It can’t happen here,” and all that sort of thing. I really don’t want events to put me in a position to say “I told you so.” But with every passing day, that looks more and more inevitable. (Of course if that _does_ come about, I’ll be saying it to the air–it’s unlikely that message boards such as this one will remain open.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431.md?page=5)