# Legal permanent residents being stopped at the border **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431 "2017-01-28T20:51:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/81 "2017-01-30T21:58:11Z")
Nah; the Border Patrol would make a poor private army for any dictator wanna-be. They’re more like the army: an obstacle to tyranny, not an avenue for it. If the a-hole in chief wanted a private army, he’d have to do it via “citizens’ militias” and KKK cadres, not via sworn officers. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/82 "2017-01-31T00:13:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Despite being a lazy homebody, I’m almost willing to get out there and protest (except I just found out about this and it’s already been “resolved”). But no, this is not what a war on religion looks like. The 30 Years War was a war on religion and this is what it looked like: > > [Thirty Years' War - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War#/media/File:The_Hanging_by_Jacques_Callot.jpg) > > Certainly, this would be a first step in that direction. But let’s save the extreme proclamations for once we get there. > > This is a tragedy and a disgrace. But it’s not (yet) a war on religion. To anyone who calls it a war on religion, I’ll demand, “Woodcut or it didn’t happen.” ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/83 "2017-01-31T01:22:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And it looks like [Federal officials are ignoring the Courts that are _supposed_ to be the last word on what is and isn’t legal.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-courts-constitutional-crisis_us_588ea5bfe4b0176377953710?) It looks like some lawyers are going to file a “contempt of court” (or something similar) against the CBP for refusing to obey court orders. But even if the CBP is found in contempt of court, who will enforce it? Would the judicial ask the police/army to force the CBP to comply? But the police/army are part of the executive branch, so likely follow orders from the head of the executive branch, i.e. Trump. Would the police/army side with the judiciary or with the executive branch? Interesting and scary times. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/84 "2017-01-31T01:49:19Z")
Federal marshals are attached to and take their orders from the Judicial branch, not the executive. ---
**Author:** ![Settimo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Settimo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Settimo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/85 "2017-01-31T02:58:22Z")
Getting a bit of the frog-in-a-pot feel from all this. How much more indignation would this have generated toward a given leader, the suddenness and extremity of this EO, if we had no exposure to Trump before this? I understand the EO makes good drama, and is probably a calculated display of strength, and helps reinforce Trump’s dominance, but aren’t we kind of throwing an important American value under the bus here? We _are_ an immigrant nation. Or is that inconvenient right now in light of these blue-moon threats (our “safety”)? Watch and wait folks, this is just prelude–this is leading up to direct U.S. action in the Middle East, and it’s going to raise the same if not greater level of alarm and indignation. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/86 "2017-01-31T09:40:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I do not give Trump credit for thinking this way but to some degree it serves his goals well. > > What is left after this walk-back is horrific. But in comparison it will be seen as relatively less so and the outrage to it will be less pronounced going forward than if he had thrown it out in the first place. Shove the Overton window wide open and then move it back down a smidge. Suddenly the horrific that remains is being called “a reversal” … That’s actually a scary thought because it means that someone, somewhere in this administration is Thinking. And thinking in a destructively conniving way. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/87 "2017-01-31T09:53:40Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > That’s actually a scary thought because it means that someone, somewhere in this administration is Thinking. And thinking in a destructively conniving way. That’s one of the scariest thoughts about a possible Pence presidency. He **is** capable of thought and planning. Trump just urps everything out and clearly doesn’t know the meaning of an unexpressed thought. He’s a bull in a China shop. I think Pence, a card-carrying bigot, would be less blunder and bluster than Trump, and more measured, calculating, and effective. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/88 "2017-01-31T15:48:03Z")
The Democrats are going to attempt to legislate this away. Is that possible??? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/89 "2017-01-31T16:01:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Democrats are going to attempt to legislate this away. Is that possible??? I don’t know. In what way are Democrats trying to “legislate this away”? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/90 "2017-01-31T16:08:50Z")
Approximately 200 senior officials at State have signed a formal “dissent memo”, crititicising the executive travel ban order, saying that it “stands in opposition to the core American and constitutional values that we, as federal employees, took an oath to uphold”. [State department mutiny against Trump immigration ban grows](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/30/state-department-mutiny-trump-refugee-ban) > [@](#): > > The memo is being sent through the state department’s “dissent channel”, set up at the time of the Vietnam war to allow alternative points of view to be aired inside the institution. Under its foreign affairs manual, dissenters are strictly protected from reprisals, but the White House spokesman, Sean Spicer, warned the signers they should resign if they did not like the policy. > > “I think that they should either get with the programme or they can go. This is about the safety of America,” Spicer said during his daily briefing at the White House. > > “A policy which closes our doors to over 200 million legitimate travelers in the hopes of preventing a small number of travelers who intend to harm Americans from using the visa system to enter the United States will not achieve its aim of making our country safer,” the draft memo said. “Moreover, such a policy runs counter to core American values of nondiscrimination, fair play and extending a warm welcome to foreign visitors and immigrants.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/91 "2017-01-31T16:17:38Z")
It’s going to be The Night Of The Short Fingers. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/92 "2017-01-31T16:22:32Z")
Well, they’re getting fired. I have to admire them for being able to put their jobs on the line. Hopefully, they have no difficulty finding new work. My only concern is that all this chaos is exactly what Bannon wants. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/93 "2017-01-31T16:32:19Z")
Merged threads at post #90. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/94 "2017-01-31T16:37:54Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Approximately 200 senior officials at State have signed a formal “dissent memo”, crititicising the executive travel ban order, saying that it “stands in opposition to the core American and constitutional values that we, as federal employees, took an oath to uphold”. > > [State department mutiny against Trump immigration ban grows](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/30/state-department-mutiny-trump-refugee-ban) Trump supporters are eating this stuff up. He doesn’t give a shit what these folks say or do. If he fires them all, his support among the base will skyrocket. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/95 "2017-01-31T16:40:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t know. In what way are Democrats trying to “legislate this away”? [Read here.](http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/bill-to-repeal-president-donald-trump-immigration-order-ban) Not much detail offered. I just don’t see how Congress can tell the president what to do in this instance. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/96 "2017-01-31T20:55:12Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Well, they’re getting fired. I have to admire them for being able to put their jobs on the line. Hopefully, they have no difficulty finding new work. My only concern is that all this chaos is exactly what Bannon wants. Under the rules, they can’t be fired for submitting a “dissent memo.” > [@](#): > > Under State Department rules and whistle-blower laws, it is forbidden to retaliate against any employee who follows the procedures and submits a dissent memorandum. One of the signatories, in a text message, said State Department signatories were trying to figure out what to do. > > [Cite](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/31/us/politics/sean-spicer-state-dept-travel-ban.html?_r=0) Of course, that was in the Olden Days… two weeks ago. :rolleyes: I’m sure there’s a way around the rule. Like firing them for parking illegally or littering or something. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/97 "2017-01-31T23:25:13Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Under the rules, they can’t be fired for submitting a “dissent memo.” Of course, that was in the Olden Days… two weeks ago. :rolleyes: I’m sure there’s a way around the rule. Like firing them for parking illegally or littering or something. Or just ignoring the rules because he thinks he’s the CEO of AmericaCorp now. After all, the CBP were ignoring the injunction stopping the detainment. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431/98 "2017-02-01T15:58:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Approximately 200 senior officials at State have signed a formal “dissent memo”, crititicising the executive travel ban order, saying that it “stands in opposition to the core American and constitutional values that we, as federal employees, took an oath to uphold”. > > [State department mutiny against Trump immigration ban grows](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/30/state-department-mutiny-trump-refugee-ban) The number of signers is over a thousand now, according to the New York Times. I would hope that the White House might reconsider when that many seasoned, experienced foreign service officers express a contrary opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-permanent-residents-being-stopped-at-the-border/778431.md?page=4)