# Legal question about homeopathic alcohol **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 23, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029 "2013-10-23T14:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/21 "2013-10-23T15:44:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I thought about that, then I remembered seeing products labeled “apple beer”, “root beer” and “ginger beer” that have no alcohol in them at all. Established products that took their lumps to get where they are. I think that attempting to market a product called [anything] Bourbon with only a homeopathic dilution of alky would draw heavy attention from ATF and you’d have to battle for years, with maybe a 50-50 chance, to get them to approve your labeling. To start with, the homeos might mount arguments that the product could induce intoxication because their science works that way. Closer to the point, I’m pretty sure even NA wines and beers have to conform to ATF (and possibly FDA) regulations. But hey, major points for the notion. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/22 "2013-10-23T15:50:36Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > Homeopathic Bourbon elixir? Maybe label with the Latin word for snake oil? I would just call it Homeopathic Bourbon, without the word “elixir”. I like the label idea: _Centum Cento Anguis Oleum_(one hundred percent snake oil). ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/23 "2013-10-23T16:42:53Z")
Followup: I think you’d have trouble getting “BASELESS BOURBON 100% Distilled Water” onto the shelves for labeling reasons, all trivialities of homeopathics aside. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/24 "2013-10-23T17:12:38Z")
A substance does not become homeopathic just through being diluted many times over. Dilution is not what _makes_ something a homeopathic remedy. According to homeopathic theory, a substance is a homeopathic remedy for a disease if it causes the same sorts of symptoms as the disease does. Unsurprisingly, however, the early homeopathic practitioners found that giving people such a substance as a medicine generally made them worse. They therefore took to diluting the stuff until it did not make their patients worse any more (sometimes this meant until there was effectively _none_ of the original substance left in it), and concluded that they had then found the remedy. If you are going to claim that what you are selling is a homeopathic remedy, you need to be able say what it is a remedy for. I suppose you could argue that since whiskey causes the symptoms of drunkenness and hangovers, homeopathic, highly diluted, whiskey is a remedy for drunkenness and/or hangovers. You may have discovered the first homeopathic remedy that will actually work! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/25 "2013-10-23T18:21:47Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > If you are going to claim that what you are selling is a homeopathic remedy, you need to be able say what it is a remedy for. I suppose you could argue that since whiskey causes the symptoms of drunkenness and hangovers, homeopathic, highly diluted, whiskey is a remedy for drunkenness and/or hangovers. > > You may have discovered the first homeopathic remedy that will actually work! Exactly! 😃 Side question concerning profitability-Using a 200c dilution, how many fifths of my homeopathic whiskey can I get from one fifth of the original rotgut? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/26 "2013-10-23T18:30:34Z")
[According to ATF regulations](http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=849921febb2e483b87d598ca892ff17c&n=27y1.0.1.1.3&r=PART&ty=HTML), you may not call it Bourbon or Whiskey if it is bottled at less than 80 proof alcohol. Perhaps you could sell it in paper sacks… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/27 "2013-10-23T18:45:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [According to ATF regulations](http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=849921febb2e483b87d598ca892ff17c&n=27y1.0.1.1.3&r=PART&ty=HTML), you may not call it Bourbon or Whiskey if it is bottled at less than 80 proof alcohol. > > Perhaps you could sell it in paper sacks… Are there any hard alcohol names that aren’t covered by that reg? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/28 "2013-10-23T19:00:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any hard alcohol names that aren’t covered by that reg? Probably not: > [@](#): > > **§5.34 Brand names.** > > (a) Misleading brand names. No label shall contain any brand name, which, standing alone, or in association with other printed or graphic matter, creates any impression or inference as to the age, origin, identity, or other characteristics of the product unless the appropriate TTB officer finds that such brand name (when appropriately qualified if required) conveys no erroneous impressions as to the age, origin, identity, or other characteristics of the product. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/29 "2013-10-23T19:03:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Novelty bottled water. Ah! You aspire to be a ‘snake oil’ salesman. That industry mostly ran the course about 100 years ago and could be ripe for a resurgence. “Czarcasm’s Miracle Mystery Tonic”, “Brother Loves’s Elixir for What Ails You.” Pack up the babies and grab the old ladies… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/30 "2013-10-23T19:06:39Z")
You would definitely not be able to sell a “Mother Tincture” of whiskey. And a [regular tincture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tincture) is probably out as well. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/31 "2013-10-23T19:10:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Probably not: That link involves brand names, not types or styles of alcohol itself. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/32 "2013-10-23T19:11:46Z")
Call it ‘Wiskey’ and ‘burben’ and hire a sharp lawyer to fight out in court ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/33 "2013-10-23T19:13:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Exactly! 😃 > Side question concerning profitability-Using a 200c dilution, how many fifths of my homeopathic whiskey can I get from one fifth of the original rotgut? I think a microscopic fraction of one drop from the original bottle would be overkill, so feel free to drink the rest and never fear you are wasting your original investment. And don’t use rotgut (horrors!), but the finest whiskey you can find. After all, in a million years, from a billion consumers, one of them might just stumble upon a single molecule of your whiskey and sue you. 🙂 > [@njtt](#): > > A substance does not become homeopathic just through being diluted many times over. Dilution is not what _makes_ something a homeopathic remedy. According to homeopathic theory, a substance is a homeopathic remedy for a disease if it causes the same sorts of symptoms as the disease does. Unsurprisingly, however, the early homeopathic practitioners found that giving people such a substance as a medicine generally made them worse. They therefore took to diluting the stuff until it did not make their patients worse any more (sometimes this meant until there was effectively _none_ of the original substance left in it), and concluded that they had then found the remedy. Not only that, but there are specific steps that Hahnemann required such as using a leather pad to repeatedly tap (succuss) each bottle of intermediate solution, and the number of taps is also prescribed. > [@](#): > > To facilitate succussion, Hahnemann had a saddle-maker construct a special wooden striking board covered in leather on one side and stuffed with horsehair. > **[Homeopathy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentization#The_theory_of_infinitesimals)** > > Homeopathy or homoeopathy is a pseudoscientific system of alternative medicine. It was conceived in 1796 by the German physician Samuel Hahnemann. Its practitioners, called homeopaths or homeopathic physicians, believe that a substance that causes symptoms of a disease in healthy people can cure similar symptoms in sick people; this doctrine is called similia similibus curentur, or "like cures like". Homeopathic preparations are termed remedies and are made using homeopathic dilution. In All... Not so simple now, is it? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/34 "2013-10-23T19:16:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That link involves brand names, not types or styles of alcohol itself. I presumed you wanted a brand name that included whiskey. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/35 "2013-10-23T19:22:31Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I presumed you wanted a brand name that included whiskey. Nope-The brand name would be _Invisible Jackalope_, and would, of course, have a beautifully drawn portrait of an invisible jackalope on every bottle. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/36 "2013-10-23T19:25:37Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > For what purpose? > > Homeopathic beer for teen agers, for instance? Hangover cure. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/37 "2013-10-23T19:30:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nope-The brand name would be _Invisible Jackalope_, and would, of course, have a beautifully drawn portrait of an invisible jackalope on every bottle. Then I’m not sure why you bother with diluting whiskey if you aren’t calling your product by a name that implies whiskey to the buyer. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/38 "2013-10-23T19:37:56Z")
Here’s some [background on the subject from the FDA](http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/DevelopmentResources/Over-the-CounterOTCDrugs/StatusofOTCRulemakings/UCM155029.pdf) (pdf). Whether or not the alcohol is considered an active ingredient may make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/39 "2013-10-23T19:39:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then I’m not sure why you bother with diluting whiskey if you aren’t calling your product by a name that implies whiskey to the buyer. _Invisible Jackalope_ would be the brand name of the product, the product would be homeopathic whiskey. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029/40 "2013-10-23T19:42:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Here’s some [background on the subject from the FDA](http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/DevelopmentResources/Over-the-CounterOTCDrugs/StatusofOTCRulemakings/UCM155029.pdf) (pdf). Whether or not the alcohol is considered an active ingredient may make a difference. I can’t open a pdf at work…but I do believe that alcohol would be the _only_ active ingredient. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-about-homeopathic-alcohol/672029.md?page=3)