# Legal question: batons in california **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828 "2005-02-19T01:20:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/1 "2005-02-19T01:20:35Z")
Whenever I see in a law enforcement or other catalog that sells self-defense batons, such as the collapsible ASP (or any other baton), they state that they will not ship to CA, and most references I have seen state that it is illegal to posess (or at least to carry) these in my fair state. However, when I go to the CA law website ([leginfo.ca.gov](http://leginfo.ca.gov)) and seach for “baton”, I cannot find a passage stating that it is illegal for civilians to have them. Does anyone know what the actual state of affairs is? I’m not really looking to buy one, but it has really piqued my curiosity. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/2 "2005-02-19T02:20:59Z")
I used to have a copy of the California Dangerous Weapons Code (or something like that), and IIRC batons were outlawed. It is (was?) also a felony to possess a blowgun. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/3 "2005-02-19T07:31:08Z")
California Penal Code Section 12020: > [@](#): > > 1. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following > is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year > or in the state prison: > (1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the > state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, > lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable > firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a > firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which > contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or > carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst > trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any > short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any > leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, > any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge > knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice > handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon > of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, > sandclub, sap, or sandbag. ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/4 "2005-02-19T08:17:05Z")
I was forced to go to the Peoples Republic of California in early 2004 for work and before I went I checked [www.packing.org](http://www.packing.org) (yes I CCW). The laws out there are a confusing mess (my carry gun which is standard U.S. Border patrol issue is illegal in California for civilians), I asked around and found out that 6 “D” cell Maglites are considered Batons so I had to go and buy a 4 cell before I left. I didn’t leave anything there that I can’t live without, I will NEVER cross the California state line again! Unclviny ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/5 "2005-02-19T18:47:50Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > California Penal Code Section 12020: The only thing in there that resembles a “baton” is “leaded cane”. Is there something else in the statute that defines a leaded cane? And I have a 6-Cell Maglite. Oops. But I’ve bought about 4 of them over the years (they keep getting stolen), and I’ve never had any catalog give me crap about shipping to California (as the same catalog does with batons). Good grief. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/6 "2005-02-19T18:51:12Z")
> [@](#): > > or any instrument or weapon > of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, > sandclub, sap, or sandbag. I think it’s the billy club part that may be the problem. Other parts of the penal code say that it should not be interpreted as to prevent peace officers from buying batons and clubs for use in their job. Which seems to indicate to me, that somewhere in the California Penal Code, there is a law stating that you can’t possess a baton. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/7 "2005-02-19T21:33:20Z")
Fiiiiine, I’ll leave my _air gauge knife_ and _multiburst trigger activators_ at home next time I visit. Actually, what are these? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/8 "2005-02-19T21:38:40Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Fiiiiine, I’ll leave my _air gauge knife_ and _multiburst trigger activators_ at home next time I visit. > > Actually, what are these? air gauge knife: a knife concealed in a tire pressure guage multiburst trigger activators: aftermarket add-ons to semi-automatic firearms that cause the gun to fire either full-auto or 3-shot (or other) burst. Usually attach near the trigger, and actuate it. hence the name. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/9 "2005-02-20T06:15:31Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > multiburst trigger activators: aftermarket add-ons to semi-automatic firearms that cause the gun to fire either full-auto or 3-shot (or other) burst. Usually attach near the trigger, and actuate it. hence the name. Technically, that’s not full-auto or three-round burst. By definition, ‘full auto’ means that you get more than one round for each pull of a trigger. A multiburst trigger activator is a device, usually a crank, that pulls the trigger very quickly. You only get one round for each pull of the trigger, but the attachment allows you to pull the trigger so fast that it is virtually automatic. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/10 "2005-02-20T11:50:47Z")
Not an authoritative cite, but my buddy who was a reserve cop at the time told me that he knew of people being arrested in CA for having a sawed-off baseball bat in the car. There’s just no “I take it to my church league” excuse for a 3/4 bat, and it’s a billy club, which presumably the driver doesn’t have a card for. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/11 "2005-02-20T15:53:02Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > Not an authoritative cite, but my buddy who was a reserve cop at the time told me that he knew of people being arrested in CA for having a sawed-off baseball bat in the car. There’s just no “I take it to my church league” excuse for a 3/4 bat, and it’s a billy club, which presumably the driver doesn’t have a card for. I was at an RV store (I thought it was a camping store because it was called Camper’s World’) in CA about 10 years ago, and they had half-sized (or less) baseball bats. They called them ‘tire thumpers’, ostensibly so that you could thump your RV’s tires to… uh… find out something (like kicking thetires on a car?). They would make perfect billies. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/12 "2005-02-20T22:13:26Z")
Also, along the lines of Johnny’s presumably innocent “tire thumpers,” I’ve seen …umm… “fish thumpers” for sale at sportsmen’s stores. You use them to whack large line-caught flopping fish into unconsciousness. They always struck me as the perfect thing to take to a gang rumble. Not that I go to many gang rumbles, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/13 "2005-02-20T22:33:26Z")
A two foot long section of 4/0 aluminum service entrance cable can double as an emergency Adolph’s Head Tenderizer. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/14 "2005-02-20T22:36:55Z")
But my [hairbrush knife](http://dftc.us/docs/Calibre%20Press/Street%20Survival%20Newsline%20No.%20688.htm#story3) is still ok, right? And the official ballpark [“Mini-bat day” scale replicas](http://www.kr3bats.com/images/manyminis.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/15 "2005-02-20T23:14:52Z")
> [@stuyguy](#): > > Also, along the lines of Johnny’s presumably innocent “tire thumpers,” I’ve seen …umm… “fish thumpers” for sale at sportsmen’s stores. You use them to whack large line-caught flopping fish into unconsciousness. They always struck me as the perfect thing to take to a gang rumble. Not that I go to many gang rumbles, mind you. Do they still call them “rumbles”? Bear in mind, they don’t spontaneously break into song at fights anymore. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/16 "2006-01-09T04:25:53Z")
Ok, time for a bump for this thread. I’m pretty sure that although one section of code mentions that it’s ok for cops to buy/carry a baton, there is no corresponding section that says a civilian _can’t_. The reason for the bump is that today I went to a flea market, and one of the vendors was selling cheap “made in china” knockoffs of the ASP batons. This was right here in California. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2006, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/17 "2006-01-09T04:48:55Z")
> [@unclviny](#): > > I was forced to go to the Peoples Republic of Californiay Two points: 1. It’s not a People’s Republic. It’s an actual republic as it’s a constituent State of the United States of America and thus is subject to the national Constitution. 2. You didn’t have to go unless you were a slave & I’m fairly certain that you weren’t a slave at the time (or even now). ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2006, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/18 "2006-01-09T05:13:27Z")
I wonder do the officers know the difference between [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clasp-knife), and [this](http://www.thespymart.com/penknives.htm), or if they hear the phrase “pen knife” and go into arrest mode?\*\*\*\*\* What I’m trying to ask is, do you think anyone has been arrested (initially at least) for stating that yes, they had a “[penknife](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penknife)”? Pocket knives are fairly common around here, even I carry a Swiss Army knife because it’s a useful tool to have. \*\*\*\*\* This is going by my understanding that pocket knives aren’t illegal, but the knives made to look like writing implements are. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2006, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/19 "2006-01-09T05:33:16Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > I wonder do the officers know the difference between [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clasp-knife), and [this](http://www.thespymart.com/penknives.htm), or if they hear the phrase “pen knife” and go into arrest mode?\*\*\*\*\* What I’m trying to ask is, do you think anyone has been arrested (initially at least) for stating that yes, they had a “[penknife](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penknife)”? Pocket knives are fairly common around here, even I carry a Swiss Army knife because it’s a useful tool to have. > > \*\*\*\*\* This is going by my understanding that pocket knives aren’t illegal, but the knives made to look like writing implements are. As far as penknife goes, I think only the latter, which is disguised as a pen, is what is banned, not the term “penknife”, which colloquially means pocketknife. pocket knives are a tricky issue. It is illegal to carry them concealed. But no one really knows what this means except that ones with a clip hangong on the waistband or pocket, plus ones in a belt sheath do not count as concealed. There is not yet any case law that I know of regarding this. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2006, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828/20 "2006-01-09T05:37:34Z")
So, I could get in trouble in CA. for carrying one in my pocket or purse? 😕 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-batons-in-california/290828.md?page=2)