# Legal Question: Does Persona Suri Juris make you above the law? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 22, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084 "2008-10-22T17:08:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084/21 "2008-10-23T23:32:29Z")
Ok, that’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084/22 "2008-10-24T01:03:41Z")
To extend what fairness one can to the legal crackpots: given that criminal cases are overturned on appeal or new trials granted or any other situation where the bang of the judge’s gavel in fact is not the final word due to technicalities that laymen can only vaguely grasp, it isn’t too far fetched to have the notion that _some_ obscure legal maneuver can accomplish almost anything. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084/23 "2008-10-24T01:59:15Z")
> [@](#): > > it isn’t too far fetched to have the notion that some obscure legal maneuver can accomplish almost anything. Okay, I can accept the idea that sometimes people win cases because of obscure legal arguments. But I can’t understand the idiots who somehow believe that the law is above the law. Like jtgain pointed out, if there was actually some poorly conceived law that actually made collecting taxes illegal, Congress would simply repeal that law and enact a new law. ---
**Author:** ![conspiracynut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@conspiracynut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conspiracynut)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084/24 "2014-06-29T20:29:12Z")
A LAW DICTIONARY ADAPTED TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND OF THE SEVERAL STATES OF THE AMERICAN UNION by John Bouvier Revised Sixth Edition, 1856 [http://www.constitution.org/bouv/bouvier\_s.htm](http://www.constitution.org/bouv/bouvier_s.htm) [CENTER]Scroll down to: SUI JURIS. One who has all the rights to which a freemen is entitled; one who is not under the power of another, as a slave, a minor, and the like. 1. To make a valid contract, a person must, in general, be sui juris. Every one of full age is presumed to be sui juris. Story on Ag. p. 10. also Sui Juris [Latin, Of his or her own right.] Possessing full social and Civil Rights; not under any legal disability, or the power of another, or guardianship. Having the capacity to manage one’s own affairs; not under legal disability to act for one’s self. West’s Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved. [http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sui+juris](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sui+juris)[/CENTER] When looking for legal definitions it is best to use a legal dictionary…opinions are just that, opinions…and I would never give the ADL any creditability. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084/25 "2014-06-29T21:26:40Z")
Damn it all! Bitten by a zombie again! I started reading the thread until a few posts down someone talked about Wesley Snipes currently residing in the pen. Uh oh! My eyes flicked to the date. 2008! _Exit stage right pursued by a zombie._ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084/26 "2014-06-29T21:54:06Z")
I’m surprised, though. Once I saw that the thread was a zombie, I figured that the bump was going to be someone protesting that the law really didn’t have any claim on this rapper because he was an iNDEPENDENT hUMAN, or some such. I wasn’t expecting a cite to a real legal dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084/27 "2014-06-29T22:48:37Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I have a feeling that this Max character will soon be visiting Wesley Snipes in Federal PMITA prison. In 2009, Max B began serving a 75-year prison sentence for charges of conspiracy to armed robbery, kidnapping, aggravated assault, and murder. He was only briefly out of jail when claiming “non suri juris”. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084/28 "2014-06-30T02:33:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m surprised, though. Once I saw that the thread was a zombie, I figured that the bump was going to be someone protesting that the law really didn’t have any claim on this rapper because he was an iNDEPENDENT hUMAN, or some such. I wasn’t expecting a cite to a real legal dictionary. One that is long out of date. The last edition I can find for Bouvier’s is 1914 ([cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouvier%27s_Law_Dictionary)). Black’s Law Dictionary, on the other hand, was last updated in 2009 ([cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black%27s_Law_Dictionary)). But a recent edition of Black’s is quite expensive unless one consults it at a law library, while an old edition of Bouvier’s is freely available online to anyone who doesn’t want to leave the comfort of home. No surprises here. When dealing with these kind of people, the legal community has long been aware of their fondness of out-of-date references, including legal dictionaries. For a full takedown of these types, see [_Meads v. Meads_, 2012 ABQB 571](http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html). In regards to obsolete references, see particularly paragraph 335: > [@Meads decision](#): > > [335] Further, it is not uncommon that OPCA [Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument] litigants will cite **obsolete, older versions** of Black’s Law Dictionary. The second edition appears particularly popular, **perhaps because it is now in the public domain**. In court, an OPCA litigant may recite a passage from Black’s Law Dictionary and then demand to know how that is incorrect. Emphasis added. If a court says that your reference is obsolete, it may be time to find a more up-to-date reference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-question-does-persona-suri-juris-make-you-above-the-law/469084.md?page=1)