# Legal rights of illegal immigrants **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 3, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360 "2003-09-03T17:30:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/1 "2003-09-03T17:30:44Z")
Over the weekend I had the great pleasure of over hearing some racist crap. What I heard sounded like a lot of BS but I really didn’t want to interupt his wonderful logic. Basically he said that he was able to beat people up who where illegal because they didn’t belong here. He said that he had done it a number of times, been arrested but when it was found out they didn’t have a green card they were deported and he was let go scot free. I always understood that even if someone was not here legally they still enjoyed the same rights up to a point and I don’t think that getting beaten up is one of those rights. He even said that he was pulled off of people while beating them but let go because “they didn’t belong here.” So what rights do people who illegally come into the US have, and what would happen if someone beats up said alien to both the alien and the racist jerk? Eddie, who is still piss he had to listen to this crap. ---
**Author:** ![xicanorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a88e57/32.png) [@xicanorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xicanorex)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/2 "2003-09-03T18:10:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Edward The Head \* > \*\*So what rights do people who illegally come into the US have, and what would happen if someone beats up said alien to both the alien and the racist jerk? > > Eddie, who is still piss he had to listen to this crap. \*\* IANAL, but yes, undocumented immigrants do have the basic human rights in our country. Not sure what is the situation in your place of residence or particular laws in your state, but, yes, racist thug will be arrested and said alien could be taken to hospital, notify the consular office, and deported, unless undocumented immigrant get a immigration lawyer/advocate before physical deportation. XicanoreX ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/3 "2003-09-03T18:56:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Edward The Head \* > Basically he said that he was able to beat people up who where illegal because they didn’t belong here. He said that he had done it a number of times, been arrested but when it was found out they didn’t have a green card they were deported and he was let go scot free. Pure BS. It is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/4 "2003-09-03T19:00:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*Pure BS. It is a lie. \*\* That’s what I thought. I was going to say something but he wasn’t worth my time. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/5 "2003-09-03T20:57:33Z")
Well, if no one is in the country to press charges, I guess he could be let go. But how’s he know who’s legal and who’s not? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/6 "2003-09-03T21:42:18Z")
Again, BS. No victim has to be present to press charges; any witness will suffice to justify an arrest, filing of charges, and a conviction. Of course, if the only witnesses are Mr. Racist Thug’s racist friends, and maybe a racist cop, then he might very well have been released; if the victim gets deported before he can testify, perhaps the case will fall apart; if Mr. Racist Thug has no idea WTF was going on, he might very well have no idea how close he was to doing hard time. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/7 "2003-09-03T23:14:05Z")
Crime doesn’t depend on the victim, it depends on the crime. If I broke into Bill Gates house and stole some throw pillows worth $200, and Bill Gates never noticed them missing, someone looking at the security tapes shortly before the statute of limitations ran out could file a complaint for my crime. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/8 "2003-09-03T23:29:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Edward The Head \* > He even said that he was pulled off of people while beating them but let go because “they didn’t belong here.” If he had reason to believe they were illegals he could detain them for the authorities but blatantly assaulting them for “being illegals” would be completely out of line. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/9 "2003-09-03T23:42:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \* > \*\*Again, BS. No victim has to be present to press charges; any witness will suffice to justify an arrest, filing of charges, and a conviction. > > Of course, if the only witnesses are Mr. Racist Thug’s racist friends, and maybe a racist cop, then he might very well have been released; if the victim gets deported before he can testify, perhaps the case will fall apart; if Mr. Racist Thug has no idea WTF was going on, he might very well have no idea how close he was to doing hard time. \*\* True. However, as a matter of course many jurisdictions rarely prosecute simple assault charges if the victim is not available to testify. Also, keep in mind that deportation is not the only (or even primary) reason the victim is unavailable to testify in court. In fact, it’s _fear_ of deportation. Oftentimes when an undocumented alien is assaulted or otherwise the victim of a crime, s/he disappears even before being interviewed, and is equally often unfindable after that because s/he fears the prospect of deportation more than s/he demands justice. So sadly, it is indeed possible that the OP’s racist acquaintence routinely gets away with beating up illegal aliens. But not because it’s legal. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/10 "2003-09-04T00:51:36Z")
> [@](#): > > He said that he had done it a number of times, been arrested but when it was found out they didn’t have a green card they were deported and he was let go scot free. I still say this is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/11 "2003-09-04T03:07:33Z")
As a practical matter, unless the illegal alien/undocumented immigrant whatever you want to call him this week agrees to depart voluntarily in lieu of deportation, a deportation hearing usually doesn’t happen instantaneously. Just like in criminal court, there are backlogs. Many people in deportation proceedings are released on bond, and depending on jurisdiction, it can take months to get an initial hearing. At the initial hearing, pro se defendants are usually given one continuance on request to find a lawyer, and then depending on the case, additional continuances to prepare any applications for relief they may be eligible for. People aren’t supposed to be arrested and immediately deported, although I’m sure there are circumstances where people don’t fully understand their rights and/or are railroaded by the feds into accepting a voluntary departure order. So even if an asault victim is immediately placed in deportation proceedings, they may well be around long enough to testify against their assailant(s). Plus the BCIS can excercise prosecutorial discretion and withhold charges until after the criminal case is resolved, but I doubt that happens often in a case of simple assault. How do the cops find out the victim has no immigration status? They probably just ask, although I don’t believe they have a right to do so unless they have independent reason to believe that’s the case, and physical appearance/accent cdrtainly isn’t enough to base one’s suspicions about a victim’s immigration status. (Lawyer types, please feel free to correct me on this or elaborate.) People admit all sorts of things they don’t have to; I once saw a guy admit he’d just imported a truckload of coke and it was stored in his basement, and then led the cops to his house and let them search it without a warrant. But if you start me bitching about how often I’ve seen cases where a guy was probably arrested for “DWH” (Driving While Hispanic), I should probably take it to the Pit. (And yes, all people physically present in the U.S. enjoy the same right to protection from assault and other violent crimes, at least in theory.) Eva Luna, former Immigration Court interpreter ---
**Author:** ![Fire\_Fox\_40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b2d939/32.png) [@Fire\_Fox\_40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fire_Fox_40)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/12 "2003-09-04T04:36:02Z")
It seems to me that most replies are concentrating on the letter of the law and not necessarily what would happen. It happens all to often that illegal immigrants will ignore certain misdemeanors such as speeds laws. If they are involved in an accident there is no license and no insurance and the best an officer can do is issue a citation that will not be paid. Illegal residents can easily get away with this practice since they have no paper trail in which to be tracked. Considering all this info it could be likely that an officer on the scene of an assault would look the other way, legal or not legal. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/13 "2003-09-04T07:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fire Fox 40 \* > Considering all this info it could be likely that an officer on the scene of an assault would look the other way, legal or not legal. And I say it could happen _once_ but the minute this practice became public there would be countless groups raising hell (as they should) and the illegal alien would have plenty of lawyers representing him in a suit against the agressor/asshole and against the police department and the city. America is not a country where a racist asshole can go around beating up immigrants with impunity. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/14 "2003-09-04T22:51:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*As a practical matter, unless the illegal alien/undocumented immigrant whatever you want to call him this week agrees to depart voluntarily in lieu of deportation, a deportation hearing usually doesn’t happen instantaneously. Just like in criminal court, there are backlogs. \*\* Crap! I had a whole paragraph on this mentally prepared and forgot to post it. At any rate, because of the deportation delays (and because the feds frequently cooperate with local DA’s when a potential deportee is also a potential witness), the OP’s acquaintence is almost certainly lying, as **sailor** says. Even if he’s getting away with it, even if it’s frequently, it’s not because the victims are being deported. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/15 "2003-09-05T02:28:01Z")
First of all, I think it would be pretty tough to get a conviction of someone who beat up illegal aliens. You would have to find a cop who would arrest the guy, then find a prosecutor and judge who are more sympathetic to illegals coming in than simple assaults against them, then you would have to find 12 people in a jury who also think that the assault on illegals problem is a greater threat to this country than millions of illegals coming in. You might find 12 people in California who would convict someone, but it would be a lot harder to find 12 people voting to convict in New Mexico or Arizona. Secondly, how much of the courts time, the time of the police is going to be spent on this guy, and how many more illegals will be coming in here while the cops and courts are busy with this one guy? Seems counter productive to even try to prosecute. If you spend police time and court time on trying to convict one anti-illegal, a thousand more will come in when you are not looking and busy elsewhere while you are not defending the border, making the problem potentially a thousand times worse, and “inviting” a thousand other beatings. If your fence breaks, and all the cattle are running out, you dont go chasing after the first cow that escapes while leaving the hole in the fence - you should be fixing the fence and stoping the rest of the cows from escaping too. If a dam starts breaking, you dont take a bucket and try to bail the water that already leaked out - you should be fixing the dam. Third, illegals, of course, are criminals. They are criminals who have no respect for our laws, have no intention of following our laws, and who have no respect for all of the rest of us and our ancestors who DID!! follow the laws on how to come here legally. But they should not be beaten up, they should be deported as quickly as possible. I dont see why it would take more than a day to deport them. If it takes longer than a day to get rid of people who have no right to be here, then something is wrong. Regardless, the real problem is not the beating up of illegals, the real problem is that there are illegals. If our borders were protected, if the border partol and US Army and Border Patrol were doing their jobs, if people from other countries did not disregard American laws and obeyed and followed the correct procedures to come here, there would not be any illegals to be beaten, and the point is mute. Instead of prosecuting some guy who abuses illegals, we should be prosecuting/punishing those who are supposed to secure our borders and who are not doing it. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/16 "2003-09-05T07:11:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fire Fox 40 \* > It happens all to often that illegal immigrants will ignore certain misdemeanors such as speeds laws. If they are involved in an accident there is no license and no insurance and the best an officer can do is issue a citation that will not be paid. Illegal residents can easily get away with this practice since they have no paper trail in which to be tracked. This sounds suspiciously like racist bullstuff to me – I’m pretty sure most police jurisdictions allow officers to arrest unlicensed drivers, and not just wave them off with a citation. Do you have a cite that proves illegal immigrants can commit misdemeanors without fear, just because they lack documentation? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/17 "2003-09-05T07:34:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > I think it would be pretty tough to get a conviction of someone who beat up illegal aliens. I think you are flat out wrong and i am not answering the rest of your post because I cannot say what I want to say in this forum. Maybe you can find me soon in a pit near you. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/18 "2003-09-05T09:49:20Z")
**sailor** , despite what I perceive as racist undertones, **Susanann** is probably right. I’d venture to say that most assaults don’t get prosecuted, whether perpetrated against illegals or someone else. As I alluded to above, if there’s no victim to press charges, no one will bother prosecuting. Although saying that was called BS, in practical terms I don’t think anything would happen. You’d need witnesses capable of testifying. You’d need a policeperson that’s not already overworked. Heck, you need to police to be called in the first place. You need to be able to identify the perpetrator. As per the OP, I don’t the guy’s doing some compensating for a small phallus, but I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable that someone could potentially get away with it repeatedly. If so, he’ll get caught and charged eventually. As per the rest of what she said, yeah, it’s inflamatory but mostly factually correct. The _indocumentados_ are here illegally breaking our laws. Changing their status to legal just promotes illegal activity, and deportation is the right thing to do. _BIG BUT_ an improved, expanded guest worker program and easing immigration restrictions would take care of the “illegalness” of the problem. (Let me point out I’m married to a legal immigrant from that part of the world.) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/19 "2003-09-05T10:34:16Z")
And I say it is BS. > [@](#): > > He said that he had done it a number of times, been arrested but when it was found out they didn’t have a green card they were deported and he was let go scot free. Please tell me in what jurisdiction and in what police station this happened. As has been said, deportation does not happen instantly and I do not believe for a moment that police are going to condone beating up anybody. By the same token they would condone beating up anyone breaking the law: burglars, speeders, wifebeaters, etc. Do you really think the police will allow someone to go around beating people up just because they broke the law? It is BS. And Susanann’s post is totally inappropraite for GQ. It is pure bigotry but we are used to that from her. It is also not worth answering because she is in the habit of not responding and she just ignores what people say to her. The pit is the place to address her. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360/20 "2003-09-05T12:01:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > > At any rate, because of the deportation delays (and because the feds frequently cooperate with local DA’s when a potential deportee is also a potential witness), the OP’s acquaintence is almost certainly lying :eek: This jerk is no **ass** ociate of mine. and for sailor, it happened in Maryland. I think I also missed that he said he was actually arrested _while_ he was doing his beatings. He said that he was pulled off someone then let go and the beatee was arrested. :dubious: This is when I started to think BS. I guess I could understand if he were to do it without getting caught and people would be afraid to turn him in, but he said that he was in jail a few times for it. I’m thinking he was in jail for being stupid. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants/199360.md?page=2)