# Legal to record a co-worker as evidence to management? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 13, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780 "2003-08-13T01:03:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Turbo\_Waffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Turbo\_Waffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turbo_Waffle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/1 "2003-08-13T01:03:31Z")
Howdy, The situation is this. My friend has a supervisor that regularly makes brash sexist and racist comments in the work place. The other co-workers experience the same thing, but the management refuses to acknoledge the problem. Is it legal to record a conversation with the person without their consent? I couldn’t find a clear answer on google, and I realize it may not be clear cut. I’ve been led to believe the management maintains they have no evidence of offenses. However, multiple people can corroborate my friend’s story, so I’m not certain if the management is really refusing to acknoledge the problem, or my friend has not made it clear how severe the problem is. What is the best course of action? I don’t know if it is really necessary to get a tape recording for evidence. I tried to suggest they just go higher up, but she is convinced that won’t work. So, what’s the straight dope on recording people with out their knowledge? As I’m sure laws vary state to state, I’m in California, in the North Bay area. Also, any other thoughts on how she might be able to make management aware of the problem? Thanks for your time, -Chris ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/2 "2003-08-13T01:27:10Z")
I’m not a lawyer, but: Is this company large enough to have a Human Resources department? The large company I work for tells everyone that if there’s something objectionable going on and you don’t want to tell your supervisors, to contact the designated HR person. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/3 "2003-08-13T04:03:28Z")
> [@](#): > > California’s Invasion of Privacy Act prohibits the recording of “confidential communications” unless all parties to the conversation consent. The California lower courts have reached different conclusions about what constitutes a “confidential communication.” Some have endorsed the view that “a conversation is confidential only if the party has an objectively reasonable expectation that the content will not later be divulged to third parties.” Under this reading of the statute, a news source who knows he or she is talking to a reporter generally expects that the contents of the conversation will be disclosed – unless there is a promise of confidentiality, of course. Thus a reporter would have been able to record such a conversation without first obtaining the source’s consent. > > The California Supreme Court rejected this definition, however, holding that a conversation is confidential if a party to that conversation “has an objectively reasonable expectation that the conversation is not being overheard or recorded,” regardless of whether a reasonable person would expect the contents of that conversation to be divulged to others. The court remanded the case for further proceedings to determine the exact nature of the stepson’s expectations regarding the recorded conversations. Source: [http://www.gannett.com/go/newswatch/2002/april/nw0405-8.htm](http://www.gannett.com/go/newswatch/2002/april/nw0405-8.htm) While the above directly applies to taped telephone conversations, it could very well be construed to apply to all conversations where a reasonable expectation of privacy is assumed. Why not have everyone who can corroborate the remarks all complete and sign individual statements. Then present the statements to management. If management refuses to do anything, take copies of those statements to the California EEOC office and report management as well for failure to do anything. And any step of the way management decides to take retribution against all those who signed statements, immediately take that to the California EEOC. While sexism in the workplace as you describe is illegal, the failure of management to take any action when informed is also an offense. ---
**Author:** ![Phnord\_Prephect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Phnord\_Prephect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phnord_Prephect)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/4 "2003-08-13T05:11:55Z")
Why not get sneaky about it? Ok, there’s this guy in the office who makes inappropriate remarks, frequently, right? Does he do this, for example, in his office with the door open? In the halls? Cafeteria or other public places? Does he profess these opinions openly to all who ask and some who don’t? Are videocameras allowed on the property? Perhaps it’s someone’s birthday and they want to take pictures, or some other circumstances in which you can have an active recording device for legitimate purposes. Wouldn’t it be interesting if, in the background noise of the recording of the party, a clearly recognizable voice were overheard stating certain opinions? Maybe from directly outside this office? Just sayin’. q;} ---
**Author:** ![Badge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/5 "2003-08-13T09:48:11Z")
As will all legal questions, it depends on where you are. In Washington state, it is a crime to record a private conversation unless everyone consents to the recording (with a few limited exceptions that wouldn’t apply to this scenario). ---
**Author:** ![tunabreath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@tunabreath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tunabreath)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/6 "2003-08-13T11:38:26Z")
In Va. you can’t record both sides of a telephone conversation without all parties knowing it’s being done. You can record anything that happens around you though. So non-telephone conversation in the work place or anywhere else may be recorded. You can record your own side of a telephone conversation also. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/7 "2003-08-14T06:19:40Z")
Call your state’s EEOC office. They will have advice. I hope. If they aren’t helpful, try the reference desk folks at your local library. ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/8 "2003-08-14T13:38:00Z")
[Can We Tape?](http://www.rcfp.org/taping/) is a great site for these issues. The [California](http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/california.html) entry makes it pretty clear that secretly recording the person wouldn’t be legal. > [@](#): > > Cal. Penal Code §§ 631, 632: It is a crime in California to intercept or eavesdrop upon any confidential communication, including a telephone call or wire communication, without the consent of all parties. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/9 "2003-08-14T16:01:59Z")
Not to mention you now have to explain why you have been running around playing junior detective instead of doing your job! ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/10 "2003-08-14T18:19:42Z")
The company and its management could be in a boatload of trouble. This is a classic case of a hostile work environment, which is a form of sexual harassment. In California, managers are required by law to investigate reports of sexual harassment. Any manager who does not investigate such a report is considered personally liable - that is, the manager can be required to pay damages. The first thing to do is talk to the HR department. They usually understand the law, and might call the offending managers on the carpet. If that doesn’t work, get a lawyer. You can probably find a lawyer who will take the case on contingency. I don’t know whether the state will help you unless you’ve been fired or otherwise forced out of your job. I wouldn’t do something legally questionable like record conversations. When you’re in a dispute, you want your hands to be clean. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/11 "2003-08-14T18:23:37Z")
The company and its management could be in a boatload of trouble. This is a classic case of a hostile work environment, which is a form of sexual harassment. In California, managers are required by law to investigate reports of sexual harassment. Any manager who does not investigate such a report is considered personally liable - that is, the manager can be required to pay damages. The first thing to do is talk to the HR department. They usuall ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legal-to-record-a-co-worker-as-evidence-to-management/194780/12 "2003-08-14T18:28:51Z")
The company and its management could be in a boatload of trouble. This is a classic case of a hostile work environment, which is a form of sexual harassment. In California, managers are required by law to investigate reports of sexual harassment. Any manager who does not investigate such a report is considered personally liable - that is, the manager can be required to pay damages. The first thing to do is talk to the HR department. They usually understand the law, and might call the offending managers on the carpet. If that doesn’t work, get a lawyer. You can probably find a lawyer who will take the case on contingency. I don’t know whether the state will help you unless you’ve been fired or otherwise forced out of your job. I wouldn’t do something legally questionable like record conversations. When you’re in a dispute, you want your hands to be clean.