# Legality of arresting someone for vague signals inviting lewd conduct? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2012, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125 "2012-02-17T12:08:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/41 "2012-02-17T17:39:28Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > I thought sovereign immunity attached to law enforcement actions. > Did that go away in the last few decades? Police enjoy Qualified Immunity (far from Absolute immunity) from color of law acts, but when a defacto false charge/arrest is made and can be proven, that burden can be overcome in a civil suit. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/42 "2012-02-17T18:04:14Z")
The way that LEOs can make arrests without probable cause seems to be the norm these days. When did this happen? Is this what we want? ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/43 "2012-02-17T18:11:37Z")
One thing that I always wondered about. I, well, I mean a friend of mine needed to provide sample to see if his vasectomy had taken. The nurse gave me, I mean him, the bottle for the sample and directed him to the public washroom down the hall to provide it. Which I, I mean he did, against all odds, given that this was before the days before porn was readily available on any given smartphone. So did I, I mean my friend, commit a lewd act that could have lead to arrest? Jurisdiction - Ontario, for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/44 "2012-02-17T18:17:42Z")
Your friend was under the direction and supervision of a qualified medical professional. If he were free-lancing he might need to worry. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/45 "2012-02-17T18:23:39Z")
> [@D18](#): > > One thing that I always wondered about. I, well, I mean a friend of mine needed to provide sample to see if his vasectomy had taken. The nurse gave me, I mean him, the bottle for the sample and directed him to the public washroom down the hall to provide it. Which I, I mean he did, against all odds, given that this was before the days before porn was readily available on any given smartphone. > > So did I, I mean my friend, commit a lewd act that could have lead to arrest? Jurisdiction - Ontario, for what it’s worth. Can’t speak for Canada, but most states have a provision in thier public indecency laws that the act is “likely to be viewed” by another, or some such language. If you are in a stall doing your #, unless the person is looking over or peering in the crack, like Craig, it can’t be viewed. Even then if it was seen by happenstance through a crack, if charged, you, as stated above, were under direction of a medical person, and that can be used as an affirmitive defense. ---
**Author:** ![isaiahrobinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@isaiahrobinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/isaiahrobinson)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/46 "2012-02-17T18:25:13Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Ok see I am the king of awkwardly phrased threads, ahem let me try this again… > > I understand it is a law on the books, and I realize you can be arrested for being a ham sandwich, but I’m wondering if this law is uncomfortably open to abuse and unconstitutional even. > > Do I have a first amendment right to ask guys if they like to hang out in the sky? A lot of laws depend on the interpretation of the courts. Is walking up and looking at someone illegal? It can be, if the court deems it to be assault (assault is the crime of “causing someone to fear violence”). Is whistling near someone illegal? It can be, if it’s at a girl and you’re deemed to be sexually harassing her or making her fear for her safety. Asking someone if they like to “hang out in the sky” could indeed be illegal depending on the situation, if the police have evidence that’s it’s a codeword for asking for drugs in that location, for instance. If you think about it, how is it different from saying “got any dope?” or “got any white?”. Those are codewords too, they’re just more common ones. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/47 "2012-02-17T18:27:07Z")
CODEWORD, that is the word I was trying to think of. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/48 "2012-02-17T18:27:33Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > If you are arrested WITHOUT a warrant and still held in custody, the Constitution mandates an arraignment and or probable cause hearing within 48 hours no longer barring court emergencies. > Since no “formal” charge was made, you had to be released. Some states permit a PC hearing without the defendant present though. > > How long ago was this? You may still be able to see an Attorney to sue for possible false arrest. > > The fact no formal charge was made is a + that no PC existed. It was over a decade ago. I didn’t know about suing for false arrest, and my attorney at the time didn’t suggest it as an option. Also, interestingly, I petitioned the ACLU for help, since I didn’t know whether it would ever go to trial or not, and they weren’t interested in the case. My attorney did show up in court for a hearing, and he told me they had said they planned on pressing charges. I went online about six months after the arrest to verify there was no trial since I hadn’t heard anything from them, and a clerk confirmed that the case had been dropped. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/49 "2012-02-17T18:31:34Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > It was over a decade ago. I didn’t know about suing for false arrest, and my attorney at the time didn’t suggest it as an option. Just thought I’d ask. Most of these types of suits are filed under 42 USC 1983, called, more commonly a 1983 action. The SC has ruled that that state’s personal injury statute of limitations apply to a 1983 action. Most states are a 1-5 year SOL. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/50 "2012-02-17T20:04:37Z")
Don’t forget that he actually touched the other guy repeatedly, even after it was clear that he was uninterested. Do your really want to make it not illegal to repeatedly touch someone who doesn’t want to be touched? Heck, based on what I’ve seen, they could have gotten the guy on sexual harassment. It’s just that there was a more narrow law that was easier to make stick. (I doubt he would have confessed to sexual harassment.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/51 "2012-02-17T20:13:15Z")
There is a category of crimes known as inchoate offenses. There are three types of inchoate offenses: attempt, conspiracy, and solicitation. Each involves some underlying substantive crime, and each may be completed even if the underlying crime never happens. There’s no trouble imagining this concept with murder, right? Even if the intended death doesn’t happen, we’re generally fine with the idea that one may be punished for intending to commit murder and executing some substantial step in furtherance of that intent, right? In the same way, solicitation to commit a crime can itself be a crime: if you invite and encourage another person to commit a crime, that itself can be criminal. With that in mind, the only question is: was Craig’s conduct intended to invite sexual activity? Sure it was. The OP characterizes his actions as vague, but people with knowledge of the restroom sex scene have advised that his conduct was far from ambiguous. Of course, he could claim that it was coincidental, and he was only using his wide stance. That would be a question of fact for the trier of fact at a trial to determine. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/52 "2012-02-17T20:14:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Don’t forget that he actually touched the other guy repeatedly, even after it was clear that he was uninterested. I didn’t see ‘repeatedly’ in the narrative. If he touched someone, charge him with battery. That’s something he actually DID. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/53 "2012-02-18T17:02:59Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I didn’t see ‘repeatedly’ in the narrative. If he touched someone, charge him with battery. That’s something he actually DID. And as explained in my post above, solicitation is ALSO something he actually did. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125/54 "2012-02-18T20:18:54Z")
Semprini. Oh no, now I’ve gone and done it… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-arresting-someone-for-vague-signals-inviting-lewd-conduct/613125.md?page=2)