# Legality of Columbo's trick with the cigar box **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [January 23, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310 "2025-01-23T22:24:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/21 "2025-01-23T17:44:50Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Placing another person in a situation than _only a person with an extreme phobia about cigar boxes_ would consider dangerous would be much harder to prosecute. But my whole point is: AFAICT, Columbo in fact intended to make the guy think _oh, shit; he’s just started the countdown timer on a bomb that’s right next to me and is about to go off._ Columbo — regardless of whether anyone can prove it in court — reasonably, and correctly, expected the guy to think exactly that. Which — dragging this all the way back on-topic for a moment — strikes me as the sort of thing I wasn’t aware of cops outside of fiction doing. Maybe I’m wrong about that, and police interrogators _have_ been known to convince a suspect that, _hey, a bomb is in front of you, and it’s about to explode,_ but I think Columbo’s approach is unusual. And — coming back around — you say it’d be hard to prosecute, but: doesn’t Columbo, on the witness stand at the murder trial, _have_ to truthfully explain why he opened the box in front of the defendant? In order to testify against the guy, wouldn’t he need to spell out that, _uh, yes, I did it because I intended for him to believe a bomb was about to go off in front of him_ — at which point he can be asked _oh, not because you thought he had an extreme phobia about cigar boxes?_ — and Columbo’s whole point would be, no, _because I believed that he believed there was a bomb in that box, which I figured would be a reasonable conclusion for him to reach. And I fully intended for him to believe that said bomb was about to go off, and for him to react accordingly: being in fear for his life._ If, under oath, Columbo obligingly testifies to all of that, is he confessing to having committed a crime? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/22 "2025-01-23T18:57:10Z")
And yet at no point did Columbo demand that the suspect give a confession or else. Maybe Columbo could honestly say that he wasn’t completely sure if the suspect was guilty or not and simply wanted to see the suspect’s reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/23 "2025-01-23T20:11:56Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > And yet at no point did Columbo demand that the suspect give a confession or else. Maybe Columbo could honestly say that he wasn’t completely sure if the suspect was guilty or not and simply wanted to see the suspect’s reaction. And the perp says “I got tired of Columbo harassing me, and I saw a cheap way to get a small quantum of revenge by throwing his cigars overboard.” Or “I don’t know what he is talking about. I didn’t thrown any box overboard.” (For the youngsters here, these were the days when cameras weren’t everywhere.) Speaking of confession and Criminal Intent’s Goren, I loved the episode with Jay O. Sanders as the OCD hitman. When Goren tried to intimidate him in the interrogation room, Sanders just sat there staring, didn’t make a reaction, didn’t say a thing. My hero! ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/24 "2025-01-23T21:56:45Z")
Columbo subthread is no good without the actual clip: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/rJTGAK4OTi8/maxresdefault.jpg "The Cable Car Finale of 'Short Fuse' | Columbo") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJTGAK4OTi8) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/25 "2025-01-23T22:04:25Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, if we’re dispensing with spoilers: is a cop allowed to gain admissible evidence by pointing a gun at the suspect’s head, and threatening to pull the trigger unless the guy confesses, if there’s no bullet in the gun but the guy believes otherwise and fears for his life? Absolutely not. And yes it would be a crime. But maybe not if it is a cigar box. “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”. > [@What is extremely common in TV or movies but almost never happens in real life?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-extremely-common-in-tv-or-movies-but-almost-never-happens-in-real-life/932311/4657): > > If Goren has a formula fault, it was coercing guilty suspects to confess to hide a deeper (to them) sin. (such as a priest who fathered a child with a parishioner, and if the secret came out, it could bring harm to them.\*) He did that enough that I thought he should be reined in. Or find better writers. Oh it was great watching him do that- the first few times. Then it got progressively more ridiculou. Also- you do not have to “come in for questioning” without a warrant or subpoena. if they invite you “down to the station”- just say “talk to my lawyer”. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/26 "2025-01-23T22:24:51Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Columbo subthread is no good without the actual clip: Thanks, that clarifies it a bit. He didn’t throw them overboard like I thought. And you didn’t say it had William Windom! Bonus! ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/27 "2025-01-23T22:43:29Z")
I feel like I’ve taken a tram ride to another place, another thread. But there was no earth-shattering kaboom. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/28 "2025-01-24T01:29:37Z")
That would be a Twilight Zone episode. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/29 "2025-01-24T01:36:26Z")
At least they didn’t have an amazing fist-fight atop the tram car like a certain particularly stupid Bond film from the middle years. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/30 "2025-01-24T03:36:42Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And so McDowall holds out as long as he can — but, thinking that the guy in front of him is _about to kill him,_ eventually decides, well, either I toss those cigars out of this tram, or I die, because, again, _this guy is about to kill me._ And so he gives himself away — but, again, solely because Columbo is so convincing in the I’m About To Kill You role. > > I’m just saying: there’s “basically” bullying someone into confessing, and then there’s “actually” bullying someone into confessing Two technical points (but don’t trial outcomes frequently hinge on those?): First, there’s a difference between “kill me” and “get me killed”. McDowall’s character thought Columbo was about to get them all killed out of ignorance; Columbo didn’t threaten him _per se_. Second, McDowall’s character never actually utters a confession; Columbo and the other guy can simply testify as to what they witnessed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/31 "2025-01-24T03:52:50Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > First, there’s a difference between “kill me” and “get me killed”. McDowall’s character thought Columbo was about to get them all killed out of ignorance; Columbo didn’t threaten him _per se_. [“But, of course, an assault can also be committed “merely by putting another in apprehension of harm whether or not the actor actually intends to inflict, or is capable of inflicting that harm.” _Ladner v. United States_ , 358 U.S. 169, 177 (1958).”](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1610-assault-18-usc-351e) > [@](#): > > Second, McDowall’s character never actually utters a confession; Columbo and the other guy can simply testify as to what they witnessed. But we don’t allow that in other contexts, right? If a cop without a warrant commits a crime by breaking into a guy’s house, does he get to simply testify that, _hey, the homeowner didn’t actually utter a confession, but how about I tell you what I saw while I was there?_ If a cop says _I know you buried that body somewhere, and I’ll break your fingers until you come clean,_ and then starts breaking the guy’s fingers until — with no confession being uttered — the guy tearfully leads him to the spot in the forest where the corpse promptly gets unearthed, can said cop admissibly testify as to what he witnessed? Is that a relevant factor? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/32 "2025-01-24T04:31:12Z")
Maybe you’re using illegal search and torture as examples to take your point to the limit, but it still sounds to me like you’re mixing apples and oranges. In the first case entry without a warrant explicitly makes the results of searches inadmissible. In the second the officer has communicated to the suspect the behavior they want, which Columbo did not. I’ll have to research _Ladner_ and get back to you. ETA: as far as I can tell, _Ladner_ was solely about whether a single action– firing a shotgun once– could constitute two separate incidences of assault if it hit two targets. I don’t see where apprehension of harm comes into it. ETA2: the case cited specifically rejects the contention that if a suspect managed to put a large group of police in fear of immediate harm, that each officer’s fear constituted a separate offense. Also, I’m not sure if the phrase “apprehension of harm” has a specific technical legal meaning in this context. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/33 "2025-01-24T05:54:37Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > as far as I can tell, _Ladner_ was solely about whether a single action– firing a shotgun once– could constitute two separate incidences of assault if it hit two targets. I don’t see where apprehension of harm comes into it. As far as I can tell, apprehension of harm comes into it when the _Ladner_ decision for some reason included the following: “For an assault is ordinarily held to be committed merely by putting another in apprehension of harm, whether or not the actor actually intends to inflict or is capable of inflicting that harm.” But I’m not sure the case needed to mention that; as far as I can tell, it can already be found in an on-the-books wording of the offense of assault. As to whether ‘apprehension of harm’ has some term-of-art meaning that excludes these specifics, I honestly don’t know. But as to breaking the guy’s fingers with or without explicitly communicating what the officer wants — man, that’s one weird hair to split. Like, is there a far-out hypothetical fact pattern where a cop rolls up on a guy, and starts wordlessly beating him until the tearful pleading starts? Maybe the injured party sputters out a confession to _some other crime entirely_ before eventually confessing to the one the cop is interested in, because the cop ain’t talking? Maybe the guy empties his pockets along the way, incorrectly figuring that _that’s_ what the cop is after? This is like the weirdest game of Twenty Questions _ever._ But I guess my real question, in two parts, comes to this: regardless of specifics, can a cop gain admissible evidence by openly breaking the law? And: did Columbo’s actions involve so breaking the law? (Which, as you say, may well turn on what constitutes ‘apprehension’ — but while I’m open to the possibility that it’s not what I think it is, I’m coming up empty on finding such a thing.) ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/34 "2025-01-24T06:59:34Z")
I dunno, a cop can lie to you as much as he wants during his investigation. As far as I can tell, Columbo was really only lying to the suspect, not threatening him with a weapon. As a private citizen, I think he’d be held to a lower level of scrutiny than a cop would be. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/35 "2025-01-24T07:05:09Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > I dunno, a cop can lie to you as much as he wants during his investigation. As far as I can tell, Columbo was really only lying to the suspect, not threatening him with a weapon. But did the suspect think that Columbo was threatening him with a weapon? At that: did Columbo think the suspect thought Columbo was threatening him with a weapon? I can see the argument that, on the one hand, it’s just a harmless box and a lie — but I can also see the argument that this particular lie, unlike many others, was specifically intended to place someone person in reasonable apprehension of imminent physical injury. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/36 "2025-01-24T10:56:21Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But did the suspect think that Columbo was threatening him with a weapon? Certainly not, he thought Columbo had inadvertently placed all three of them in grave danger. He thought Columbo didn’t know about the existence of the weapon. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/37 "2025-01-24T11:41:45Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Certainly not, he thought Columbo had inadvertently placed all three of them in grave danger. He thought Columbo didn’t know about the existence of the weapon. But that’s the hair to split: saying he thought “Columbo didn’t know about the existence of the weapon” looks to me like you’re saying he thought _it was a weapon._ And you add that he thought Columbo didn’t know that — but, I’d add, he thought _Columbo was about to kill him with it._ Do I have that right? He thought that _it was a weapon,_ and that _Columbo was about to kill him with it?_ ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/38 "2025-01-24T13:28:34Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Certainly not, he thought Columbo had inadvertently placed all three of them in grave danger. Did the episode show how much explosive was in there? If Roddy was trying to cause a subsequently fatal accident, you don’t use two pounds of C4. Even in the wreckage that would be obvious. PS moderators: why do I keep getting notices whenever anyone posts, like this is my thread? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/39 "2025-01-24T13:48:56Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > PS moderators: why do I keep getting notices whenever anyone posts, like this is my thread? Mods don’t read posts. Or at least not many of them. If you want to communicate with a mod, reporting your own post and explaining your issue in the “something else” box is an easy way to start. Good bet the answer to your question is you have set this thread’s status to Watching. Which is easy to do inadvertently with an errant click or keystroke. Down at the bottom below the last post near the big Reply button is the tracking status dropdown. Note what status it says, then click the dropdown to see your choices. Change it to whatever status gives you the results you want. Viola! ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310/40 "2025-01-24T13:54:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Good bet the answer to your question is you have set this thread’s status to Watching. Which is easy to do inadvertently with an errant click or keystroke. Thank you! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-columbos-trick-with-the-cigar-box/1013310.md?page=3)