# Legality of Nevada malaria treatment ban **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 25, 2020, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247 "2020-03-25T12:12:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/21 "2020-03-26T05:40:27Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Okay, even if you discounted the political bits of Exapno Mapcase’s reply, what is your response to the sciency bit, which says that the trial is basically meaningless? > > With Pogue’s concerns about the value of the data, which appear to be reasonable expectations about getting reliable results, is there anything left that you can point to that says using this is better than scoffing a mixture of bleach and gravel, on the basis that bleach kills germs and rocks are effective deterrents? > > Actually proving that specific drugs work on specific conditions effectively enough to market them is a multi-million dollar business because its hard to actually do to the level necessary to risk peoples’ lives in case you get it wrong. At some point you need to choose whether to believe the science or people who are spouting random things sourced from their own ignorance because, at heart, they believe any words are better than considered silence. India appears to believe in Trump Pills, it has banned their export according to: > **[India bans export of drug being tested for coronavirus treatment](https://news.yahoo.com/india-bans-export-key-malaria-031443401.html)** > > India said on Wednesday it had banned the export of hydroxychloroquine and formulations of the malaria drug while experts test its efficacy in helping treat patients infected with coronavirus. There are currently no approved treatments, or... ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/22 "2020-03-26T06:17:19Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > India appears to believe in Trump Pills, it has banned their export according to: > [India bans export of drug being tested for coronavirus treatment](https://news.yahoo.com/india-bans-export-key-malaria-031443401.html) I’m not getting the link, but it might be because India has more than a million malaria cases p.a. [2015 most recent I can find], and would rather treat its own malaria-affected citizens than the anxious non-malarial families of doctors in heartland America. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/23 "2020-03-26T07:00:53Z")
**Jim Peebles** , I have lupus. I was on hydroxychlorquine for years. It helped suppress the symptoms of the disease, and unlike other lupus meds, it didn’t KO my immune system. Unfortunately, docs found it damaged my retinas and yanked me off of it. I still have friends with lupus who rely on it, though. So I’m going to say this to all of those who demand some of the limited supply of this medication, one that has not been credibly proven to cure or prevent COVID-19 but is needed by lupus sufferers and others: shame on you. Seriously. You should be ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![Harrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac8455/32.png) [@Harrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harrington)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/24 "2020-03-26T08:10:19Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > I’m not getting the link, but it might be because India has more than a million malaria cases p.a. [2015 most recent I can find], and would rather treat its own malaria-affected citizens than the anxious non-malarial families of doctors in heartland America. The article doesn’t expressly state why India is withholding Hydroxychloroquine, but it is implied they are doing it for health concerns. > [@](#): > > “Chloroquine has demonstrated toxicity in certain patients,” Dinesh Dua, chairman of the Pharmaceuticals Export Promotion Council of India, told Reuters. “You have to tread with caution because there is no comprehensive data to prove it works.” And also operational disruptions due to sickness, lockdown, and fears. > [@](#): > > The group said India, the world’s largest supplier of generic drugs, was not short of the drug but that companies were acutely short of staff to run operations. > [@](#): > > “It is impossible to maintain operations due to lockdown, because employees don’t want to come (to work),” Dua said. There is nothing that suggests India is hording the medication because of Trump’s excited utterance. However, in [this article](https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2020/03/25/india-trump-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-covid19/), an Indian drug manufacturer states that the country is using it prophylactically. > [@](#): > > For now, the company does not expect to be able to export. “As the things stand today, we can not export the API hydroxychloroquine sulphate, as well as it’s formulations, unless exemptions are given on a case to case basis on humanitarian grounds,” Harish Kamath, the IPCA corporate counsel wrote us. He noted that the Indian government recently permitted prophylactic use of hydroxychloroquine tablets for health care workers as well as people who were in close contact with coronavirus patients — and because of this there could be increased demand and an immediate shortage in the country. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/25 "2020-03-26T08:19:32Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > It seems to me that’s a mostly reasonable limitation to be enacted in a time of emergency on a regulated/prescription-only substance which has great medical use but is currently being blatantly misused despite recommendations to the contrary, and is now dangerously scarce for legitimate use. > > I worry about the “14 day no refills” language though, and hope that doesn’t prevent folks with rheumatologic diseases from getting their prescriptions refilled. I just started a new lupus patient on it the other week and he’ll need it daily, perhaps for life (and yes, it’s often lupus and House is an idiot who deservedly got kicked out of my alma mater). I didn’t find the Nevada declaration, but I saw discussion that it had a 31 day limit instead. No help if you’re from another state, unless you’re willing to drive interstate and the dispenser is willing to accept an out-of-state prescription. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/26 "2020-03-26T10:46:11Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > I’m not worried about it, but one is considered a public health threat if one says that. I’m convinced the antimalarial drugs work (when combined with zinc and azithromycin), and on the off chance I get a serious case I would ask my doctor for it. I don’t see how it is legal for a governor to tell doctors they cant give antimalarials to patients with serious cases of coronavirus. Where did you get your medical and/or pharmacological training? Oh, I see you are in Las Vegas. Luckily for you you’re not in Singapore. And it’s legal for a governor to tell doctors to, get this, follow the laws relating to medicines. That’s kind of a no-brainer, one would think. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/27 "2020-03-26T12:05:39Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > And doctors seem to believe it, to the point they are being accused of prescribing it to themselves and their families: > [https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html) Q. What do you call the med student who graduated at the bottom of their class? A. Doctor. There are [over a million physicians in the United States](https://www.statista.com/topics/1244/physicians/). They’re gonna run the gamut in terms of intelligence, gullibility, and ideological zealotry. If only the dumbest, most gullible, most hardcore Trump-worshipping 5% of doctors–a tiny minority of doctors–are stockpiling drugs based on the president’s unqualified and ignorant opinion, that’s 50,000 doctors acting like assholes here. The fact that some doctors seem to believe Trump’s bloviating is completely unsurprising. In no way does it provide evidence to support that bloviating. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/28 "2020-03-26T12:25:51Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > (and yes, it’s often lupus and House is an idiot who deservedly got kicked out of my alma mater). Gee thanks, doc. Cut a lame wiseass off at the knees. Just see if I hand you any straight lines in the future. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/29 "2020-03-26T12:28:55Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Gee thanks, doc. Cut a lame wiseass off at the knees. Just see if I hand you any straight lines in the future. :mad: Two other famous alums of my alma mater: 1. Dr. Hannibal Lector 2. Dr. Julius Hibbert ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/30 "2020-03-26T13:45:59Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > This recent research paper has been all over the news: > [https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-as-a-treatment-of-covid-19/](https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-as-a-treatment-of-covid-19/) > And doctors seem to believe it, to the point they are being accused of prescribing it to themselves and their families: > [https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/states-doctors-stockpiling-trial-coronavirus-190038095.html) The other study, not so much. The other study, conducted in China, showed that it didn’t work. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-25/hydroxychloroquine-no-better-than-regular-covid-19-care-in-study](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-25/hydroxychloroquine-no-better-than-regular-covid-19-care-in-study) Someone else upthread mentioned some of the issues with the French study, specifically the patients that didn’t complete the trial. The other issue I see is that the trial wasn’t randomized. The doctors want their medicine to be proven to work. When they are selecting which patients get which treatment it is possible that, subconsciously or even consciously, they gave the “good” treatment to patients that had a better chance of recovery. The other thing that works against the hydroxychloroquine as miracle drug theory is that there isn’t a clear cut theory for a mechanism of action. All you have is some anecdotal idea that an anti-parasitic drug and and antibiotic (two classes of drugs that are generally not considered effective against viruses) may work against this particular virus. Dr. Trump’s statement that hydroxychloroquine should work because it is a powerful drug against malaria is ignorant, because malaria doesn’t have jack shit in common with coronavirus. And, to repeat, the Chinese study showed it didn’t work. I suspect this treatment is just one other gem that comes out of Trump’s pinhole - like the Google website- that is just going to fade into obscurity because it was largely based on lies. But if you are intent in your belief that Dr. Trump is infallible in his medical knowledge, you can buy the chemical on Amazon in aquarium supplies, unless other idiots got it all first. This is all reminding me of when I worked with cancer support groups, trying to dissuade people from throwing their hopes behind the latest experimental drug or natural remedies. Which literally NEVER panned out. And it was always the conservatives that had the propensity towards magical thinking. They were so easily conned it was scary. Nothing’s changed. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/31 "2020-03-26T15:02:20Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Nope. You are the one turning a scientific issue into a political issue. Dude. The President of the United States turned this into a political issue. I’m just reporting the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/32 "2020-03-26T15:54:46Z")
I saw in another thread that politics are supposed to be kept out of this forum, which I somehow had missed, so I will refrain from any more comments along that line. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/33 "2020-03-26T19:24:03Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > But if you are intent in your belief that Dr. Trump is infallible in his medical knowledge, you can buy the chemical on Amazon in aquarium supplies, unless other idiots got it all first. I can’t remember where in the USA this was. But, there’s already been one death in the news caused by a human ingesting tablets meant to be dissolved in an aquarium. to **Qadgop The Mercotan** Besides the worry of the virus breaking out in the prison you work in, you must be constantly barraged by folks asking you about Corona virus. This has got to be a tough time for you. To the OP I don’t know what to say that hasn’t already been said by actual doctors. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/34 "2020-03-26T20:21:37Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > This is all reminding me of when I worked with cancer support groups, trying to dissuade people from throwing their hopes behind the latest experimental drug or natural remedies. Which literally NEVER panned out. And it was always the conservatives that had the propensity towards magical thinking. They were so easily conned it was scary. Nothing’s changed. Did any of them see Dr. Donald Trump? (Yes, he’s a real person.) > **[Donald L. Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_L._Trump)** > > Donald Lynn "Skip" Trump (born July 31, 1945) is an American oncologist who has been the executive director and chief executive officer of the Inova Schar Cancer Institute in Falls Church, Virginia, since January 2015. He has the same first and last name as former United States President Donald Trump, but they are not related to each other. > Trump grew up in Hudson, New York. He received his undergraduate and medical degrees from Johns Hopkins University, where he also completed his fellowship ... (Couldn’t resist.) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/35 "2020-03-26T22:19:27Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I can’t remember where in the USA this was. But, there’s already been one death in the news caused by a human ingesting tablets meant to be dissolved in an aquarium. That’s what I was referring to. I probably shouldn’t have done that. It was sarcasm, but I keep forgetting how gullible some people are. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/36 "2020-03-27T10:02:42Z")
The use of Chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine as part of a treatment for SARS (caused by a different coronavirus than COVID-19) was tried in the earlier 2002-2004 SARS outbreak. In vitro testing showed apparent efficacy at glycosylation inhibition, helping to disrupt the viral replication process. [Cite from The Lancet from 2006](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(06)70361-9/fulltext) Chloroquine shows strong anti-viral properties for both therapeutic and prophylactic roles. Cite from 2005 from the Virology Journal: [Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread](https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-2-69) from a study in primates cell cultures. And so on. There is reasonable scientific reasons to think that Chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine may prove effective in treatment of the current coronavirus outbreak. While a fully blind study would be ideal, such may prove difficult in the current climate. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/37 "2020-03-27T10:42:10Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > While a fully blind study would be ideal, such may prove difficult in the current climate. Already been done, with no difference from placebo. Also underpowered though. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/38 "2020-03-27T13:27:04Z")
To put in succinctly, the much touted study was apparently a manipulated piece of crap, done by a doctor who appears to be as credible and professional as Trump’s personal physician. ETA - Does Trump shop for doctors at Grateful Dead concerts? > **[Chloroquine genius Didier Raoult to save the world from COVID-19](https://forbetterscience.com/2020/03/26/chloroquine-genius-didier-raoult-to-save-the-world-from-covid-19/)** > > As COVID19 pandemic rages on, French microbiologist Didier Raoult offers a cure. President Trump is convinced, but is Raoult’s research reliable, here and in general? It was a 14 day study that, through some manipulation of time and space, was conducted in 10 days. Peer review was done in less than 24 hours by an associate of the “scientist”. Even though the stated endpoints were days 1, 7 and 14, the only data used was the day 6 data. This is called cherry-picking the endpoints and it’s a common way to cheat in drug trials. Here’s how it works. You are testing a drug. You have a heavily tested interest in the drug being successful. Yiu design a test with a 14 day endpoint. You give the drugs to a bunch of patients for two weeks and the results at the end of two weeks are minimal or non-existent. But you tested every patient every day. So at the end of the two weeks you comb through the data and find that many of your patients improved a little bit on Day 9, even if it didn’t stick. So your published result is “promising new drug shows results after 9 days”. The patient groups also appeared to be cherry-picked and the control group was, on the average, about 15 years older than the group that got the drug. Plus, they weren’t treated at the same location and they were tested using different methods. And they declined to release certain clinical results (whether the patient got better), releasing only viral load data. Their main concern seemed to be getting these results to Fox News. And that Trump sucking asshat Dr. Oz actually went on national TV with the opinion that this doctor was a great genius and it would be unethical not to give these drugs to millions of people. It’s really mind-boggling stupidity, and very harmful to people that have conditions that these drugs actually work against. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/39 "2020-03-27T14:37:10Z")
A good way to boost your reported success rate is to remove people from the treatment group if they get sent to the ICU or if they die. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247/40 "2020-03-27T15:58:23Z")
“Junk science” is unfortunately a real thing, and there is no field in which it’s as prevalent as medicine. I wrote the first major books about lactose intolerance. To do so I spent endless hours in the basement of the med school library, where the old medical journals were stored, reading literally every study every published about the problem that they had available. I’m not a doctor, but I did go as far as grad school statistics and worked professionally in survey research (FORTRAN on punch cards!), so I had a basic understanding of how to conduct a study and meaningfully process the results. Out of all the hundreds of peer-reviewed journal articles I read, shockingly few gave information that was useful to me in advising people about how LI worked and what to do if you had it. The vast majority were quickie, small-scale studies done for apparently no reason other than to get something published and move on to the next quickie, small-scale study. Most did no more than gather a group small enough to fit in a room, feed them some lactose, and have them self-report symptoms. There is a much quoted line that reads “At least one study found that the average academic article is read by about 10 people, and half of these articles are never read at all.” Ironically, that statement itself is junk. Trying to trace it back led to an editor at a journal who inserted it into somebody else’s article based on a memory of something he heard in college. I found another unsourced claim that 44% of all articles are never cited. That one I can believe. What happened here was that people suddenly raced back to the literature to find anything that might possibly be useful, with the result that old junk that never should have been unearthed hit the media. It’s still junk, though. This is a good lesson for anyone willing to pay attention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-nevada-malaria-treatment-ban/850247.md?page=3)