# Legality of pay toilets **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 4, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057 "2005-12-04T18:17:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/21 "2005-12-05T03:05:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I have to ask-was it possible to crawl under the door in an emergency? Generally, yes. If you didn’t mind crawling on the dirty bathroom floor to get to it. I recall a story about Jack Benny. In case you don’t know, Benny’s comic person was that of a cheapskate.\* Supposedly he once dropped his wallet in a pay toilet and, with no change, had to try to crawl under to get it. That’s when someone came in and recognized him. \*One of his biggest laughs on his show came after a robber said, “You’re money or your life.” Benny paused – he was the master of the comic pause – and the theif again said, “You’re money or your life.” Benny finally said, “I’m thinking it over.” IRL, he was known for his generosity, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/22 "2005-12-05T03:16:54Z")
The Amtrak station in Seattle has pay toilets and you need a train ticket just to get past the guard to get inside restroom. Needless to say the train station is not in the best part of town. ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/23 "2005-12-05T03:29:07Z")
**clairobscure** , those sound precisely like the toilets located around San Francisco that I linked to earlier. I guess it’s a matter of semantics, but I am familiar with pay toilets in this sense. What I have never heard of is an actual pay toilet, as in the toilet itself. By putting a coin in a slot and having a door open, technically you are paying to use the stall, not necessarily the toilet, or that’s how I see it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/24 "2005-12-05T03:51:46Z")
> [@psycat90](#): > > Oops, yes, stalls. Not the toilets themselves. I’ve never heard of a pay toilet, legal or otherwise. Do they exist anywhere? They existed in Chicago at one time, may still do along side non pay units. The premise for them was that if they were private and kept clean & cleaned after each use patrons would pay for the priveledge! Economics may have been the death of them. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/25 "2005-12-05T04:19:36Z")
UK public pay toilet, 30 pence a go last time I used one.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/655000/images/\_659689\_superloos150.jpg](http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/655000/images/_659689_superloos150.jpg) This cartoon gives a good idea of what they are like inside [http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/ada0016l.jpg](http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/ada0016l.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/26 "2005-12-05T04:24:20Z")
Locked. Please deposit a dime. **samclem** GQ moderator The OP was asked and answered. If anyone wants to continue to offer anecdotes, start your own thread in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/27 "2005-12-06T02:54:02Z")
I’ve reopened the thread in case someone wished to post an answer to the OP. The question originally asked and perhaps not totally answered is: > [@](#): > > I read somewhere a while back that pay toilets are illegal in the United States and had been ruled as such by the US Supreme Court. Is this true? And the answer is…??? Please DO NOT post any additional random comments about what the situation is in other countries, and please don’t add additional anecdotes about what life was like when you were a kid. I don’t mean to stifle these kinds of posts, I usually allow them. But in this case, let’s let this one be answered or die. Thank you. **samclem** GQ moderator If you have a comment about my actions on this thread, please post it in the Pit thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=348007&page=1&pp=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=348007&page=1&pp=50) ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/28 "2005-12-06T03:26:09Z")
There was a New York case in 1976 called Nik-O-Lok Co. v. Carey (surely one of the most giggle-inducing lawsuit names of all time) in which a New York court found pay toilets in state-run facilities to be a discriminatory tax. The text doesn’t seem to be online, but the cite is 378 N.Y.S.2d 936 in case any Dopers with access to a law library want to look it up. There have also been situations where cities or states passed _laws_ against pay toilets, whether privately run or otherwise, but that’s different. I’m pretty sure that no pay-potty case has ever come before the Supreme Court, but as always it’s hard to prove a negative. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/29 "2005-12-06T04:20:39Z")
The Nik-O-Lok Co., by the way, was named for the nickel plated coin box, not the coin required to open the door. I will not offer a variation of Here I Sit. I will not… ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Canoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecc23a/32.png) [@Blue\_Canoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Canoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/30 "2005-12-06T04:50:36Z")
When I was a kid, I remember seeing them somewhere in New York. I don’t know if they were outlawed or just removed because they weren’t making any money. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/31 "2005-12-06T04:55:03Z")
Years ago, but not long enough ago (in the early 90’s I think), Boston’s Logan Airport had pay toilets. My work group was doing a lot of traveling to Boston at the time and it really pissed us off. I wanted to start a group entitled Citizens Revolt Against Pay Toilets (CRAPT). The routine would be that every time you used one of the pay stalls you would put a bulletin from CRAPT in the door so as to prevent it locking when you left. The bulletin would explain that your free passage was courtesy of CRAPT and to pass it along to the next guy. We had an artist in our group and I tried to get him to draw us up a nifty bulletin but he was afraid he would get in trouble somehow and the others were too chicken too. Watta buncha zeros. ---
**Author:** ![beergeek279](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@beergeek279](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beergeek279)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/32 "2005-12-06T06:41:30Z")
There’s a similar pay toilet, sponsored by ClearChannel (hey, no jokes remember!), on Carson Street in Pittsburgh. It’s a quarter to go in, sanitized after every usage, doors open up after about 15 minutes, so it’s about the same as what’s happened before. They likely put it in because pissing in an alley on Pittsburgh’s South Side is almost a tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/33 "2005-12-06T07:02:20Z")
I don’t think it was illegal; maybe unconstitutional. I believe it was found to be sex discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/34 "2005-12-06T07:58:25Z")
> [@Good Egg](#): > > I don’t think it was illegal; maybe unconstitutional. While it is possible for something to be illegal without beng unconstitutional, it is not possible for something to be unconstitutional without being illegal. The Constitution is law; the supreme law of the land. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/35 "2005-12-06T08:00:21Z")
Yes. I am not that great with expressing myself sometimes. Why did they make women pay and not men anyway? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/36 "2005-12-06T08:23:19Z")
> [@Good Egg](#): > > Yes. I am not that great with expressing myself sometimes. Why did they make women pay and not men anyway? Men and women both have to pay to use the toilet, but men’s restrooms have urinals. Men can use the urinals, but women would have to pay to use the toilet. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/37 "2005-12-06T08:27:27Z")
This wiki [entry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet#Pay_toilets) may be the source of the OP’s query. I don’t consider wiki particularly accurate, so don’t believe that this answers the question. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/38 "2005-12-06T08:53:11Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Trying to slip in when somone else exits in order not to pay. The bowl dissapear, the door closes behind you, and you’re showered with disinfectant. :: shudders :: Yep. happened to me. I was in France, in a hypermarché, in 1990, when these things were new. I had to use the toilet. And there it was, this space-age self cleaning cubicle, about the size of a small bathroom. They were new to me, I had never heard of them at the time. Well, the designer of the doorknob was a true original, and from the design it was totally unclear to me if I actually had locked the door behind me, or that it was still open to anyone who wanted to butt in. So I went to the door again, opened it to see if it had been closed. It was, and relieved, I closed the door once more behind me to go about my toilet business inside. Then all hell broke loose. The door locked on the inside with a loud “click” . The light went out and it went pitch-dark inside. There was a hissing sound in the corner, and lukewarm steam smelling of desinfectant descendend on me. By then, I was huddled in a corner, whimpering in fear. The only thought that went through my head was: " They can’t have made this so dangerous that I’d really get hurt in here, can they? They must have taken into account that somebody could get trapped in here, right? But what if these things are so new that they haven’t thought of a situation like this?" I was scared to death and royally pissed off at the same time. It was such a stupid an shameful situation to get caught in! After two or three minutes, the sound stopped, the light went on again and the door opened. In my corner, I had only gotten my pant-leg slightly wet with steam. Pale as a sheet I half stumbled, half rolled out of the cubicle and crumbled in a crying heap. I’ve never used one of these toilets again. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/39 "2005-12-06T12:45:29Z")
I’ve made an extensive search at [Findlaw.com](http://Findlaw.com), and find nothing to back up the ‘Supreme Court’ claim found on wiki. I believe this claim is false – no US Supreme Court case has yet addressed pay toilets. Clearly pay toilets exist in the US, and are state-sponsored in some instances. The answer to the OP is: No, it is not true that pay toilets are illegal in the United States, and the Supreme Court has never ruled regarding pay toilets. Take it away, Sam… ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057/40 "2005-12-06T14:17:08Z")
> [@ScoobyTX](#): > > I don’t know about any court rulings (other than male/female parity related issues), but the model plumbing codes (Uniform Plumbing Code, International Plumbing Code, Standard Plumbing Code) and building codes all require a certain number of plumbing fixtures available for public use in buildings open to the public. These codes are adopted (usually verbatim, with minimal local amendment) by local jurisdictions, which are responsible for their enforcement. I think **ScoobyTX** is closest to the right answer. Local Health codes require that a certain number of public toilets be made available by certain types of businesses to their customers. This appears to be particularly true for bars, restaraunts, and large retail establishments. OSHA also requires a certain minimum ratio of toilets to employees regularly in the building at any given time. I suspect that at some point, the decision was made that pay toilets were not free and available to customers and employees, and therefore did not fulfill these requirements. I don’t think they’re illegal, they just don’t fulfill some legal obligations to provide bathrooms to patrons and employees. This would explain why there are no longer pay toilets in most American bars and restaraunts, but they still exist on the streets of San Francisco as a public convenience that is not required by health code or OSHA regs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-pay-toilets/334057.md?page=3)