# Legality of selling my vote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650 "2008-02-07T04:37:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/1 "2008-02-07T04:37:06Z")
If I offered up my vote in the upcoming election on Ebay, would I be breaking any laws? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/2 "2008-02-07T04:57:07Z")
Dunno about America, but in The UK it’s punishable by an unlimited fine, and up to 2 years in prison. > **[Votes offered for sale on eBay](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/apr/06/election2005.localgovernment)** > > Less than 48 hours after five Labour councillors were dismissed for electoral fraud, several British voters were today attempting to sell their general election votes illegally on the auction website eBay. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/3 "2008-02-07T09:24:45Z")
Here in Minnesota, it’s the candidate who bought that would be violating the law. Since you offered it for sale, I suppose the District Attorney could charge you with aiding & abetting this illegal sale or something like that. We had a case where a candidate was charged with violating this law because he gave away Twinkies to voters. He eventually won the case (after the election was over), because the judge said that the value of a Twinkie was so nominal it could hardly count as ‘something of value’ sufficient to cause a person to change their vote. But the judge did not specify any exact amount as the limit, so candidates still have to be careful about this. It’s generally assumed that anything less than around $5 (about 1 hour of minimum wage at the time) is probably OK. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/4 "2008-02-07T13:56:13Z")
I don’t know if you are doing anything illegal, but the implication is that the buyer would be voting twice. Or, the buyer is someone who isn’t qualified to vote, and can now vote with yours. Either way, he’s doing something illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/5 "2008-02-07T14:06:50Z")
[This old _Wired_ article](http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2000/10/39860) begins to touch on it a little. Seems that you’re okay trading, but not selling. Depending. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/6 "2008-02-07T15:45:42Z")
> [@](#): > > The Office of the Secretary of State today reminded Washington voters that it is illegal to sell your vote. > > The reminder comes in light of two recent attempts by Washington residents to sell their vote in the upcoming elections on the popular auction website eBay. [http://www.secstate.wa.gov/office/osos\_news.aspx?i=OE9XteSjw11yKTfX%2BPR65w%3D%3D](http://www.secstate.wa.gov/office/osos_news.aspx?i=OE9XteSjw11yKTfX%2BPR65w%3D%3D) ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/7 "2008-02-07T15:51:16Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] We had a case where a candidate was charged with violating this law because he gave away Twinkies to voters. [/QUOTE] To sell something, there have to be two parts: offering payment, and agreeing to give something in return for the payment. How could simply giving away Twinkies, or even $50 bills, be determined to be vote buying if there is no request or agreement to vote a certain way in return? I know it looks bad, but what is the letter of the law? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/8 "2008-02-07T16:04:38Z")
> [@](#): > > SEC. 6. If any person shall give, or offer to give, directly or indirectly, any bribe, present or reward, or any promise, or any security, for the payment or delivery of money, or any other thing, to induce any voter to refrain from casting his vote, or to prevent him in any way from voting, or to procure a vote for any candidate or person proposed, or voted for as the elector of President, and Vice President of the United States, or Representative in Congress or for any office of profit or trust, created by the Constitution or Laws of this State, or by the Ordinances, or Authority of the Mayor and City Council of Baltimore, the person giving, or offering to give and the person receiving the same, and any person who gives or causes to be given, an illegal vote, knowing it to be such, at any election to be hereafter held in this State, shall, on conviction in a Court of Law, in addition to the penalties now or hereafter to be imposed by law, be forever disqualified to hold any office of profit or trust, or to vote at any election thereafter. But the General Assembly may in its discretion remove the above penalty and all other penalties upon the vote seller so as to place the penalties for the purchase of votes on the vote buyer alone (originally Article I, sec. 3, thus renumbered by Chapter 681, Acts of 1977, ratified Nov. 7, 1978. As sec. 3, it was amended by Chapter 602, Acts of 1912, ratified Nov. 4, 1913). [http://www.msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/43const/html/01art1.html](http://www.msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/43const/html/01art1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/9 "2008-02-07T16:05:29Z")
\*\*Two and a Half Inches of Fun \*\* what state are you in? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/10 "2008-02-07T16:33:20Z")
Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/11 "2008-02-07T16:42:54Z")
> [@](#): > > anyone selling or attempting to sell his or her vote, and anyone buying or attempting to buy the votes of another is in violation of the election laws of the State of Illinois and of the United States as enumerated herein. > **[IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY](https://www.vote-auction.net/VOTEAUCTION/2000_LEGAL_DOCUMENTS/CHICAGO_ILLINOIS/207.70.85.119/preliminaryinjunctionorde.htm)** > [@](#): > > (10 ILCS 5/29‑3) (from Ch. 46, par. 29‑3) > Sec. 29‑3. Selling of vote. Any person who votes for or against any candidate or public question in consideration of any gift or loan of money or for any other valuable consideration, or for any promise to cause or support the employment or appointment of any person to any public office or public position, shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony. > (Source: P. A. 78‑887.) > **[Official government website of the Illinois General Assembly](https://www.ilga.gov/Legislation/ILCS/Articles?DocName=001000050HArt%2E+29&ActID=170&ChapAct=10%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=3&ChapterName=ELECTIONS&SectionID=36748&SeqStart=89300000&SeqEnd=91400000&ActName=Election+Code%2E)** > > Welcome to the Official government website of the Illinois General Assembly ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/12 "2008-02-07T16:54:49Z")
Federal law on the topic: > [@](#): > > § 597. Expenditures to influence voting > > Whoever makes or offers to make an expenditure to any person, either to vote or withhold his vote, or to vote for or against any candidate; and > **Whoever solicits, accepts, or receives any such expenditure in consideration of his vote or the withholding of his vote— > Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the violation was willful, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both**. [18 U.S. Code § 597 - Expenditures to influence voting | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000597----000-.html) (Emphasis added.) ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/13 "2008-02-07T17:31:42Z")
And how does one enforce vote buying anyway? Does the voter take a camera into the voting booth with them? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/14 "2008-02-07T17:48:12Z")
What if I never intended to honor my pledge to sell my vote? Let’s say I was voting for McCain all of the time, but I “sold” my vote to Romney for 10 bucks. Then I go into the booth and vote for McCain anyways. Since I wasn’t really selling my vote, it should be legal right, but maybe a civil matter for Romney… ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/15 "2008-02-07T17:53:21Z")
How is it then legal to promise to lower taxes? I’d say that has value . ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/16 "2008-02-07T17:56:57Z")
You’d probably still be in trouble under the federal statute, which explicitly prohibits soliciting a violation. You’d probably still be charged with soliciting under state law; if not that (or in addition to it) you could be charged with conspiracy or some other inchoate crime. Also, by claiming that you never intended to perform as agreed, you could be on the hook for fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/17 "2008-02-07T19:10:02Z")
[QUOTE=jackdavinci] And how does one enforce vote buying anyway? Does the voter take a camera into the voting booth with them? [/QUOTE] Can you video yourself voting? ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/18 "2008-02-07T19:12:05Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] You’d probably still be in trouble under the federal statute, which explicitly prohibits soliciting a violation. You’d probably still be charged with soliciting under state law; if not that (or in addition to it) you could be charged with conspiracy or some other inchoate crime. Also, by claiming that you never intended to perform as agreed, you could be on the hook for fraud. [/QUOTE] Can you really be charged with fraud? My understanding is that there is never considered to have been a contract since the thing contracted for was illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/19 "2008-02-07T19:12:55Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] Federal law on the topic: [18 U.S. Code § 597 - Expenditures to influence voting | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000597----000-.html) (Emphasis added.) [/QUOTE] What exactly is consideration? If my girlfriend offers to give me oral sex if I vote for Obama are we violating the law? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650/20 "2008-02-07T19:47:28Z")
To inject a particle of reality into this discussion, laws against selling votes were put into place for serious reasons. The practice wasn’t about you trading a vote for a blow job and it wasn’t about presidential elections, which require too many votes to make buying them feasible. Local elections were far more vulnerable. Mayor, sheriff, city council and the like at one time held considerable power and perhaps more important, controlled patronage jobs, collected bribe money from illegal activities like prostitution, and doled out permits for activities. A few hundred votes could make the difference in these elections and a thousand dollars could buy that many votes. The money would go to people like bums and winos, those who weren’t normally planning on voting but who could easily be bought. Preston Sturges’ movie. [The Great McGinty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_McGinty) uses this plot. > [@](#): > > Dan McGinty (Brian Donlevy) is a tramp who, cajoled into voting under a false name in order to get $2, impresses a local political boss by voting 37 times in a rigged mayoral election. McGinty becomes one of the boss’s enforcers, then his political protégé, winning the mayor’s job as a “reform” candidate, and going on to the governor’s mansion before a change of heart compels him to take public service seriously. The movie is much exaggerated, but Chicago has that sort of reputation in politics for the best reasons. Ballots were not as secret in those days, either, so it was often easy to tell how a person voted. They wouldn’t have gotten the money until after they voted the right way. Today vote buying is far less of an issue. Reform laws took away much of the graft and patronage in local politics. Voting machines made ballots secret. Districts are larger, more populous, and more heterogeneous, so that small shifts in voting would have less effect. A two dollar payment wouldn’t get anyone to walk down the street, much less sell a vote, and the modern equivalent would be too high for the meager rewards. It does occasionally happen. Here is a documented case in which federal prosecutors obtained convictions. [http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Vote\_Fraud\_Intimidation\_Suppression\_2004\_Pres\_Election\_v2.pdf](http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Vote_Fraud_Intimidation_Suppression_2004_Pres_Election_v2.pdf) > [@](#): > > 6.4 Illinois > (a) Nine Democrats Found Guilty Of Vote-Buying In East St. Louis > On June 29, 2005, a federal jury convicted Charles Powell, Chairman of the East St. Louis Democratic Party, and four others of felony conspiracy to commit vote fraud. The jury deliberated for more than five hours before convicting the five “of scheming to buy votes with cash, cigarettes and liquor last November to try to get key Democrats elected.” Prosecutors alleged that money for the vote-buying “flowed from the Belleville-based St. Clair County Democrats to their East St. Louis counterparts in a bid to elect certain Democratic candidates, including Mark Kern as St. Clair County Board chairman.” Each count carries up to five years > in prison and $250,000 in fines. > > The five convictions on June 29 brought the total number of East St. Louis Democrats found guilty of vote-buying in the last four months to nine. On March 22, 2005, four Democrat activists in East St. Louis pleaded guilty to paying voters $5 to $10 to vote for the “Democratic ticket” in the November 2004 election. Those pleading guilty included three precinct committeemen and one precinct worker. According to the Belleville News-Democrat, the money used to buy votes came from the St. Clair County Democratic Central Committee, which paid $73,326 to East St. Louis Democratic precinct committeemen days before the election. > > Powell, then an East St. Louis City Councilman, was indicted in March 2005 along with four others on charges of “paying residents to vote in the Nov. 2 election to try to influence the races for Supreme Court, County Board chairman and president.” Powell and three of the others charged served as Democrat precinct committeemen. At the time, all five pleaded innocent to the charges. Powell subsequently lost his bid for re-election to the City Council in April 2005. > > Among those convicted with Powell was Kelvin Ellis, the city’s Director of regulatory Affairs and a Democratic precinct committeeman. Ellis was already in jail at the time of his indictment charged in January 2005 with plotting the murder of a witness to a federal vote fraud investigation. According to the indictment, Ellis plotted to kill a witness who told the FBI that he had committed election fraud and other offenses. “[W]hen voters are paid for their votes, our democracy is corrupted, and corrupted for all,” said U.S. Attorney Ronald Tenpas after announcing the indictments. The votes were for local elections, but it’s a federal crime since the Voter Rights Act of 1965. Vote buying prosecutions are almost always for large-scale attempts to shift elections, made more risky by the obvious fact that the more people involved the more likely it is for some to talk. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legality-of-selling-my-vote/436650.md?page=2)