# Legalization of ALL drugs, not just marijuana **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781 "2003-05-03T02:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/81 "2003-05-05T00:29:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I say we let the companies decide on whether they’ll take the risk. I’m not arguing against that, I’m just saying it’s a potential problem. > [@](#): > > The WoD propaganda has been very effective. I’d say that’s highly debatable. But is sure is dishonest. I won’t quote the whole rest of the post, but the case I was trying to make - and I wish the guy who posted would clear up his take on it - is that some problems caused by drugs, like alcoholism leading to violence, won’t go away because they occur irrespective of legality. > [@](#): > > There’s absolutely no reason pot should be outlawed. As I’ve said, I agree with that. But the reasons for legalizing them have to make sense and, at least in general, be proveable and beat the other alternatives. In the case of some of FudgeNugget’s ideas, I’m not sure that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/82 "2003-05-05T03:08:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hazel \* > **Educate people _truthfully_ about the risks.** It’s never going to happen. The DEA an NDCP seem to believe that unless people \* fear \* the drug, they’ll use the drug. The only way to keep kids off pot is to convince them that if they ever smoke marijuana, they’ll end up pregnant, run over little kids who inexplicably ride their bikes in front of drive-throughs, shoot their friends, and get a membership kit from Al-Qaeda in the mail. It’s hard to be honest about marijuana and still make it into the Demon Weed we must shun for fear of our very lives. “It might give you cancer!” hasn’t kept people away from smoking tobacco, either. As with alcohol, the warning that “It’ll impair your judgement temporarily!” is an actual selling point. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/83 "2003-05-05T05:57:23Z")
Lissa, when I said we should educate people truthfully about the risks, I was referring to hard drugs. Educating people truthfully about marijuana would mean admitting that it is less risky, less harmful, then alcohol or tobacco. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/84 "2003-05-05T12:09:40Z")
Gawd, not another potlover’s thread. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/85 "2003-05-05T18:46:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hazel \* > \*\*Lissa, when I said we should educate people truthfully about the risks, I was referring to hard drugs. Educating people truthfully about marijuana would mean admitting that it is less risky, less harmful, then alcohol or tobacco. \*\* I know. Sorry, maybe I should have been clearer that I was just using marijuana as an example. But the scare tactic campaigns work equally well with other drugs which do potentially have more serious effects. Are you going to die the first time you use crack? Probably not. Will you definitly get addicted? Not always. Will cocaine stop your heart? Most likely not, and I’ve seen cases of long-term users walk away from the drug with no withdrawal. Will every single person who uses PCP become violent? No. Will you always get hooked on heroin? No-- I’ve seen examples “weekend users” who never slide into addiction. They’ll never be honest about this, either. It must always be the worst-case scenario, they feel, in order to scare people out of any experimentation. Even knowing these facts, I still would hesitate to make the “hard” drugs freely availale to any adult. Perhaps some sort of prescription service could be offered to those who are already addicts to endure quality, but even that idea has problems. There’s just no perfect solution. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/86 "2003-05-06T06:22:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*Gawd, not another potlover’s thread. \*\* I don’t like pot. Puts me to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/87 "2003-05-06T09:54:11Z")
I think the de-criminilization policy in the Netherlands and some other European countries has been a huge success - one of the main problems with trying to buy pot has been dealing with sometimes unscrupulous dealers who would try and sell other substances. But you have definatley not thought out the problems with legalising things like crack or heroin…I know from experience that both these substances, particularly crack are often used until the supply runs out, raising the question that if it were cheaper and more readily available would it just mean that addicts would do more? Alcoholics have been known to steal to get more booze and crack makes alcohol look like a cup of coffee in the addiction stakes. What really needs to be done is to de-mystify drugs and take away the rebellious aspect of it. When drugs become more hum-drum people do them less. On a recent visit to Amsterdam I was astonished at the (mainly American i’m afraid to say) amount of people who made such a big deal about pot. ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/88 "2003-05-06T10:06:49Z")
Just to add another thing it is often the illegality of drugs in the first place that makes them popular: when MDMA (ecstasy) was criminilized in 1988 seizures went through the roof and have been rising each year. I spoke to someone who said ‘if its legal its not gonna be worth doing?’ I think education about responsible use is the way forward, quality testing for things like speed and ecstasy and courses of free subscribed heroin for addicts with a re-hab package mandatory. Legalising is not necesarrily the answer, particularly with hard drugs but criminilization is not really the answer either! What a catch 22! (excuse the spelling - i’m really stoned) j/k! ---
**Author:** ![Jdeforrest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@Jdeforrest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jdeforrest)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/89 "2003-05-06T14:51:30Z")
I posted this in a different legalization thread but it’s some good info, so I’ll attach here for your perusal: Okay, I have to chime in here. I remember hearing some time ago that England made heroin available by perscription to help curb deaths due to impure drugs. So I hit google looking for statistics from their country that may apply to this debate. I couldn’t find anything that specifically stated that heroin is available there by prescription, so that may be false. I did, however, find some good info that I’d like to share. [http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n650/a03.html?192](http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n650/a03.html?192) This cite is a report from Australia that showed that due to a decrease in availability and an increase in price, crime skyrocketed. A definate correlation to the argument that crime will be reduced if prices come down. [http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n811/a02.html?192](http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n811/a02.html?192) This cite shows a decrease in heroin deaths and addiction rates due to relaxed rules for methadone clinics and methadone use. [http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n840/a07.html?192](http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n840/a07.html?192) This cite shows a huge increase in crimes and addictions that coincide with harsher penalties for heroin. [http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n621/a06.html?192](http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n621/a06.html?192) This cite speaks about a Dutch initiative to start handing out heroin to addicts and talk about a 3 year study that was conducted that shows that “they found that patients on a combination of methadone and heroin were less likely to die, committed less crime, used less cocaine and were in better physical, social and mental shape than those given methadone alone.” Myself, I’m for treatment of drug addictions. I don’t see the point of locking someone up possibly destroying families, giving them a criminal record which makes it harder for them to get work, and attaching a label to them will make the situation better. Well, those are my two cents. Jdeforrest ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/90 "2003-05-06T16:25:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Is there any nation where _all_, or nearly all, drugs are legal? Some of the N.European nations have (as we all know) rather liberal drug laws, but even they nix the hard stuff. Probably a lesson to be had in that. But then again, look at the drop in alcohol-related crime when Prohibition was repealed. > > Eh. Not enough people use hard-drugs to want to repeal laws against them. Marijuana, _maybe_. The finest pervian flake? Never. \*\* **Brutus,** currently it ain’t an option. There is an international convention (if you want me to, I’ll find it an link it), pursuant to which nations have agreed not to legalize any drug, including marijuana. This is the reason that nations like the Netherlands have not legalized pot, but instead decriminalized it. But in any event, there are a lot of things in the law that aren’t popular, but are there because it is considered good social policy. Parole and bail come to mind. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Sardaukar3925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sardaukar3925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sardaukar3925)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/91 "2003-05-06T19:07:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\* > > Are you going to die the first time you use crack? Probably not. Will you definitly get addicted? Not always. Will cocaine stop your heart? Most likely not, and I’ve seen cases of long-term users walk away from the drug with no withdrawal. Will every single person who uses PCP become violent? No. Will you always get hooked on heroin? No > There’s just no perfect solution. \*\* Will you crash every time you drive drunk? Probably not. Will you get shot if you play around with a gun? Most of the time, no. Will stepping in front of a train be bad for your health? Not always. Not really a valid logical argument here, IMO… ---
**Author:** ![FudgeNugget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7cd45c/32.png) [@FudgeNugget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FudgeNugget)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/92 "2003-05-06T20:21:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\* > As I’ve said, I agree with that. But the reasons for legalizing them have to make sense and, at least in general, be proveable and beat the other alternatives. In the case of some of FudgeNugget’s ideas, I’m not sure that’s true. \*\* What reasons have I not argued sufficiently enough to be a good alternative to illegalization? I’ve already given up with the no-age-restriction thing. ---
**Author:** ![FudgeNugget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7cd45c/32.png) [@FudgeNugget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FudgeNugget)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/93 "2003-05-06T20:25:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*Gawd, not another potlover’s thread. \*\* First of all, what the hell is that supposed to mean? Second, what does that make you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/94 "2003-05-06T20:54:06Z")
> [@](#): > > What reasons have I not argued sufficiently enough to be a good alternative to illegalization? I’ve already given up with the no-age-restriction thing. You’ve argued plenty. I said prove. You’ve talked about the alternatives, but I’m not convinced in a number of ways that the logic you are using is correct, or that (as I said) it would actually be better or good. ---
**Author:** ![FudgeNugget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7cd45c/32.png) [@FudgeNugget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FudgeNugget)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/95 "2003-05-06T21:11:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*You’ve argued plenty. I said prove. You’ve talked about the alternatives, but I’m not convinced in a number of ways that the logic you are using is correct, or that (as I said) it would actually be better or good. \*\* If what you want from me is quotes, stastistics, and reference materials, I can’t come up with much in that direction since I don’t know of any country that has everything legalized. All I have is hypothetical situations, observation, and speculation, so I can’t prove for sure that legalization of everything will be a better alternative than it is now. What would be wrong with my logic? ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/96 "2003-05-07T00:23:18Z")
I agree that the legalization of marijuana would be a good thing. It’s simply not a harmful enough drug to warrant being illegal. But harder drugs, I think, should remain illegal. It’s pretty much a given that usage of hard drugs would increase if they were to be legalized. For one thing, you have the people who will do it because they were on the fence, and the illegality of it was just enough to keep them clean. But also, legalizing hard drugs will go a long way towards removing the stigma associated with those drugs. It’s this stigma, more than illegality, that keeps people from using them. We paint drugs as uncool, as the refuge of losers and failures. People who do drugs are stupid. Legalizing them will essentially give the impression that we, as a society, have given drug use a big rubber stamp of approval. With the partial removal of this stigma, use will skyrocket. So then the question is this: Do the benefits of legalizing hard drugs (the ending of the drug war, potentially less crime, and more police resources available to address other crime) outweigh the downsides (dramatic increases in drug use, increased social acceptance of drug use, more crimes commited by people on drugs)? The question is not trivial, but I have to come down on the side of conservatism (hey, go fig). I think we should leave the harder stuff illegal, though I would support eliminating jail time for the use of such drugs, and simply imprison the dealers. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![FudgeNugget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7cd45c/32.png) [@FudgeNugget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FudgeNugget)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/97 "2003-05-07T00:34:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > \*\*I agree that the legalization of marijuana would be a good thing. It’s simply not a harmful enough drug to warrant being illegal. But harder drugs, I think, should remain illegal. > > It’s pretty much a given that usage of hard drugs would increase if they were to be legalized. For one thing, you have the people who will do it because they were on the fence, and the illegality of it was just enough to keep them clean. But also, legalizing hard drugs will go a long way towards removing the stigma associated with those drugs. It’s this stigma, more than illegality, that keeps people from using them. We paint drugs as uncool, as the refuge of losers and failures. People who do drugs are stupid. Legalizing them will essentially give the impression that we, as a society, have given drug use a big rubber stamp of approval. With the partial removal of this stigma, use will skyrocket. > > So then the question is this: Do the benefits of legalizing hard drugs (the ending of the drug war, potentially less crime, and more police resources available to address other crime) outweigh the downsides (dramatic increases in drug use, increased social acceptance of drug use, more crimes commited by people on drugs)? The question is not trivial, but I have to come down on the side of conservatism (hey, go fig). I think we should leave the harder stuff illegal, though I would support eliminating jail time for the use of such drugs, and simply imprison the dealers. > Jeff \*\* Here’s something from [http://www.heroin.org/heroin.html:](http://www.heroin.org/heroin.html:) > [@](#): > > \*\* > Drug law was widely flouted. In explaining the failure of decades of prohibitionist legislation, former chief of police of the USA, Joseph D McNamara, wrote in National Review… > > “It’s the money, stupid. After 33 years as a police officer in three of the country’s largest cities, that is my message to the righteous politicians who obstinately proclaim that a war on drugs will lead to a drug-free America. About $500 of heroin or cocaine in a source country will bring in as much as $100,000 on the streets of an American city. All the cops, armies, prisons and executions in the world cannot impede a market with that kind of tax-free profit-margin. It is the illegality that permits the obscene mark-up, enriching drug-traffickers, distributors, dealers, crooked cops, lawyers, judges, politicians, bankers, businessmen…” > > Choking off the supply of narcotics at source isn’t a realistic prospect either. Myles Ambrose, one of President Nixon’s closest advisers in the War on Drugs, was scathing in his judgement of some of his fellow drug-warriors… > > “…The basic fact that eluded these great geniuses was that it takes only ten square miles of poppy to feed the entire American heroin market, and they grow everywhere…” \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/98 "2003-05-07T00:46:55Z")
> [@](#): > > All I have is hypothetical situations, observation, and speculation, so I can’t prove for sure that legalization of everything will be a better alternative than it is now. It’s not necessarily that; I do realize the difficulties you’re talking about. Although the Netherlands has come close to some of your ideas. It’s that I for one would have to be sure that the solutions you are proposing would lead to fewer or less severe problems than we have now. I’m not convinced of that at this point. I think alternatives are definitely necessary, I’m just not sure this is the right one. Drug war? Has to end. Pot? Legalize it. Whither from there? I don’t know. > [@](#): > > What would be wrong with my logic? When I disagreed with something I pointed it out, so no point in repeating it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/99 "2003-05-07T02:17:06Z")
> [@](#): > > But harder drugs, I think, should remain illegal. Would you mind justifing this position? I feel that it should not be the job of the law to protect people from themselves. Why should it be a matter for the law if people want to slowly (or if they miscalculate the dosages, quickly) kill themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781/100 "2003-05-07T03:11:02Z")
I simply don’t buy the argument that if drugs were legalized, everybody would go crazy and get high. If heroin were legalized tonight, would you rush out and buy it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legalization-of-all-drugs-not-just-marijuana/172781.md?page=6)