Derleth, you have no idea how hard it is to actually get high off second-hand smoke. Back in the dark days of high school me and my ne’er do well friends would drive out to the middle of nowhere to get high. Sometimes I’d have to be to work too soon to come down so I’d just drive while they smoked a few bowls in the car, never rolling down the windows and hotboxing it wonderfully. It would get really REALLY hazy in there, but the most that happened to me is my eyes and nose would get irritated by the smoke, but nothing else noticable happened at all.
So as to your premise of being ‘moral’ to expose people to these chemicals, pot smoke is every bit as hazardous as (some studies say less) second-hand smoke from cigarettes.
I refuse to compromise on the idea that my body is mine unless and until I do things against the public interest, and that the laws relating to marijuana ought to reflect that.
I refuse to compromise on the idea that casually and negligently drugging me is wrong, even if I don’t find out about it right away.
We’ve had threads about how adulterating food to punish a thief is both illegal and morally wrong, even if the adulterants are less harmful than marijuana smoke, but we can’t come to a consensus that negligently exposing someone to carcinogenic and intoxicating fumes might not be entirely acceptable?
No, more like crowding 3 people into a phone booth, sealing all openings with duct tape, and inhaling deeply for an hour while the other two people puffed mightily at Camberwell carrot-sized joints. That might be enough. Then again, it might not. Anyone who has ever got high from secondhand smoke has tried VERY HARD to do so. It’s not an accident, it’s an accomplishment. To put it in perspective, locking lips with someone and sucking the smoke directly out of their lungs isn’t likely to get you high, in my experience.
As others have mentioned, the troubles with weed smoke are the same as those with cigarette smoke (smell and health). Intoxication just isn’t an issue. I suspect that marijuana smoke will be dealt with in the same way cigarette smoke is in your locality. They also might make smoking in public places illegal so A) they reduce the number of stoned people walking around in public and B) children don’t see adults smoking Satan’s Weed (oh the horrors!), but those laws would be analogous to public drinking laws, not current anti-smoking laws.
It is already illegal in most states to smoke in public places, so your insistence on including public bans is seems misplaced and appears to be rooted in something other than the sanctity of personal space.
You can get “involuntarily intoxicated” from gas fumes or spray paint. It’s not like there is no precedence. The general consensus is “it’s probably not going to happen, and if it does happen for god’s sake just move away from the smoke.”
but we can’t come to a consensus that negligently exposing someone to carcinogenic and intoxicating fumes might not be entirely acceptable?
There’s a pretty good consensus on here that exposing someone to carcinogenic, heck even just smelly fumes isn’t entirely acceptable. That’s the rational behind non-smoking laws in the US and elsewhere. No one is suggesting (in this thread, anyway) that those sorts of laws aren’t a good idea.
What people are disagreeing with is your characterization of secondhand marijuana smoke as “intoxicating.” You seem to have virtually no experience with marijuana, but many of us here DO have experience with it, some of us EXTENSIVE experience, and we’re telling you that it isn’t intoxicating. There’s nothing wrong with not being familiar with weed, but your notions of it’s “intoxicating vapors” sound naive to those that are. When weed is legal, the problems with secondhand smoke will be the same as cigarette smoke: it smells and is bad for you. There is no intoxicating effect (to secondhand smoke). Therefore it’s likely to be regulated in a manner similar to cigarette smoke.
Bullshit. You would get high as fuck in both scenarios. I have done the locking lips thing, and I have been locked in the cabin of a pickup truck with two people smoking pot. I got so high that I thought the smoke rising off of a discarded cigarette was a cat running in place. For a really long time.
I think a lot of second-hand smoke arguments are whiny bullshit, but you’re going too far in the other direction.
Sorry. Guilty of only skimming the thread. I didn’t really follow your posts that much so I apologize if it seemed like the “whiny” remark was aimed at you.
What I don’t like is when people walk past a smoker and cough really loud and dramatically, or claim to be gagging because someone in the same room smells like smoke, etc etc. I think years of living with an indoor smoker could take its toll on a body, but it’d be hard to convince me that much else could, as far as second-hand smoke goes.
Based on that, I guess I might be for a law that prohibited smoking in your own home if minors also lived there. I’d have to think about it. I cannot imagine someone smoking in the same room as my kid, especially day after day after day.
Well the more um ‘professional’ pot peeps from California Norml seem to have determined that vaporizing releases the THC before burning releases the tars and particulates. I was a cigarette smoker way back in the early 80s for a couple of years and have no problem with the idea of lighting up a bong or bowl but if I can get the THC and other fractionals without the tars and particulates, I am down with the idea. Also with vaporizing, I can use smaller amounts and be more conservative with my dosing. Although I was considering encapsulating the marijuana and taking it that way. It will all depend on what we end up with when we move to Arizona. I for one will enjoy being able to reduce pain without ramping up my BP and killing my stomach lining. Currently I have to balance out my NSAIDS with omeprazole to suppress excess stomach acid, which also screws up my digestion or I can change meds and have palpitations and a boosted BP. Yay modern chemistry.
I would guess that if pot were ever legalized consumption would be highly regulated, possibly confined to your own private property and maybe a few specialized pot bars.
:dubious: How sure are you that you are going to be able to dance with Mary Jane here for joint pain? I voted for 203 and I seem to recall the ballot saying that it’s basically for cancer and AIDS patients, with very few, if any, exceptions.
I could fully get behind this. I wouldn’t even have a problem with living near a popular marijuana bar (what I called a tea house) as long as the smoke didn’t spill over into my home.
I’m not opposed to people using as long as their use never affects me in a harmful fashion. I’m surprised that could ever be a point of controversy.
This is a horrible argument for two reasons: One, we don’t let Dow Chemical or DuPont get away with dumping waste into public lakes by telling people to avoid those lakes. Two, people don’t fill a room in a house or apartment building with gasoline or paint fumes even if they intend to get high off of them, and they certainly don’t release fumes in public in the ways smokers release smoke in public.
Dude, it’s already against the law to smoke in restaurants in most states.
And if you happen to live in a locality that doesn’t ban smoking in restuarants, just don’t go to restaurants that allow smoking. Plenty don’t, even when it’s legal.
See how easy that was?
Dude, I’ve never once smoked pot, not even one time in college. But you’re freaking out over this non-issue.
You aren’t going to be forced to breathe second-hand pot smoke, any more than you are currently forced to breathe second-hand tobacco smoke. And nicotine will intoxicate you, just in a different way than THC.
For the most part, this like advocating that we need special anti-Santa laws because he breaks into houses every Christmas eve.
Second hand pot smoke in all but the most egregious circumstances (which your consent to stay in the hotboxed environment would negate the idea of lack of consent) is NOT “drugging you.” No more than selling rum cake or a dish made with wine is drugging kids who order them in restaurants.
How about just baking the stuff? I have no desire to breathe marijuana smoke - if nothing else, it stinks horribly to me. But someone can sit down in the apartment next door to me, gobble down some marijuana baked products, and not stink up the place.
I don’t get why the idea of hotboxing would have ever come around if there was not some effect. You don’t hear of people hotboxing with cigarettes, for example.
Plus, not getting high and not being intoxicated are not the same thing, like buzzed and drunk are usually not regarded as the same thing. I do at least have anecdotal reports of at least slight effects when someone is hotboxed, including feeling depressed.
I really would be interested in what the actual THC content is in marijuana smoke as compared to the nicotine content in cigarette smoke (relative to their active concentrations, of course.)
Plus, I do know that some people who get buzzed off of non-alcoholic beer–specifically because they think it is impossible.
Hotboxing can work - but you need a very small space, and tons of smoke. A room does not just become a hotbox when a few joints are smoked.
A non-smoker would almost never find themselves in a hotbox situation, and if they did, would have ample time to remove themselves. It’s not that it can’t work, it’s that for it to work, you have to voluntarily stay in a very, very, very smoky area for quite some time.
Really? NA beer has a alcohol content < 0.5%. So eight to ten NA beers would be the equivalent of one real beer. Assuming it takes a complete lightweight three or four real beers to get drunk, they would need at least twenty five NA beers, in a short period of time. . . I’m not buying it.
Even if someone got drunk on one real beer, I’d still find it pretty unlikely they would be able to drink ten NA beers before the alcohol from the first few metabolised.
And I’ve done the same things and felt nothing at all, guess it also comes down to one’s body chemistry and/or pot strenght. I used to date someone who would light up from the moment he woke up to the moment he fell alsleep.
The only time I was ever able to get high at all was that one time years ago I cooked a chocolate cake infused with high grade hash bought in holland. Now, that, wow!