Chacoguy, You wrote, beginning to end: “Have you or your wife been inside a Colorado dispensary? Otherwise, go spray your ignorance elsewhere.” That sure looks like denial to me!
It was unnecessarily rude and jerkish, and the only reasonable interpretation of “spray your ignorance elsewhere” is that I was grossly misrepresenting the products available. I wasn’t, as supported by another poster who has indeed, she tells us, been inside one.
BTW, I am not ‘against legalization’. I just would like us to be a bit more (perhaps) thoughtful about how we go about it. In much the same way that we have tried as a society to prohibit marketing tobacco to minors, for example. We’re made some real headway in decreasing tobacco usage in our society, to the overall benefit of our health. Maybe we should look for some real-life considerations regarding marijuana legalization that might mitigate some of the potential harms.
The thing about THC gummy bears, or brownies, or sodas or what-have-you is that people can get the same effect without resorting to smoking anything. I’ve never had one, but the point is supposed to be that they are healthier.
It is worth pointing out that pot smoking is quite common, even though it is illegal most places. Right now that money goes to criminal types, including groups like the murderous Mexican drug cartels. Screw those guys- legalize it and use the money to improve the school system. Let the stoners out of jail and use the money saved to repair our roads and bridges. Instruct the police to take a closer look at Wall Street criminals who rip us off to the tune of billions over and over again instead of chasing some guy with a joint.
It’s a really easy debate.
“I am in favor of laws that are targeted to their intention. An age restriction and a rider to parental negligence laws gives us the coverage we need to protect the children without restricting people who would be law abiding adult consumers.” - Farin.
I don’t think we necessarily disagree about this all that much. I’m a little gunshy after the California experience with ‘medical marijuana’, where the laws that were supposed to be sufficient to prevent rampant abuse were clearly not up to the job.
Not only would I not tell you that I will admit that I am addicted. Sure, its a psychological addiction that should be manageable but that’s not always so easy. One of the main problems I had for years was realizing that I was addicted and it lead to an odd situation.
The drug laws themselves were my gateway. I had been smoking for about 15 years or so, running my own business and all was good. Then I got a job offer for a lot of money with a company that drug tested. No problem, thinks me, marijuana isn’t addictive, I can just stop and grow up. I didn’t know how nor did I really even have the conversation. Oh, the job I got also was very stressful and has an insanely high alcoholism rate; I started hanging out with drunks. It wasn’t good and it wasn’t about feeling good it was a substitute for marijuana. I didn’t know that then though. Hindsight and all.
One night, outside the bar, I was offered crack cocaine. Still didn’t like it anywhere near as well as marijuana but it was available, easier to get, trumped alcohol, and if I was careful, wouldn’t trip a drug test. Sounds great but that lead to a 17 year dance with the devil which I didn’t want or need.
Therapy helped me understand what was happening to me and why but it didn’t cure me at the time. It gave me the tools to understand me better and eventually break the addiction and ween myself from the drug. My usage tapered off and I was crack clean over a year before I had my stroke and I’ve been clean since my stroke.
So, I’m fine now. 
The stroke did allow me to get a medical marijuana card though and that gave me the one thing I desperately needed in my life, peace. I can now get the drug I need, now more for it’s physical effects and frankly I can’t remember the last time I got high because it was fun or I liked it. I am certain that it came after a prolonged break from smoking. Not after the stroke though. It’s not really done for fun any more, it eases my day. I have no one to help me and I am living alone, holding a full time job and less than a year out of my stroke. It’s really rough sometimes.
I do smoke less though because without the fear of running out and having to get it and maybe not being able to, I don’t stress schedules and only smoke when I need it. Well, that’s pretty much a lot but not as much as before when it was illegal.
But peace. That’s what it gave me. I don’t steal, do violence or otherwise disrupt society ( I didn’t even try to get a mmj card until I had a real qualifying condition )but for years I was made to feel like a criminal and socially unfit because I enjoyed marijuana while my alcoholic best friend was just fine being a bad drunk and everyone just shook their heads. He was just having fun, I was evil. Drugs are bad mkay.
Now, not so much. I hold my head higher, I have more pep in my step and I feel more tolerant and engaged with the world now that the stigma has been lifted and that feels great. In fact, it’s nigh priceless and that alone makes legalization worth it.
It isn’t perfect. I’m editing this in because I know that my post isn’t perfectly written or eloquently argued and I realize that it will be read through the discriminatory filter “pot head.” Old stigmas die hard.
That’s what we’re really talking about here, human dignity. It’s not about getting high. Think about this folks. Humans want to get high so much that they’ll use something that rots the flesh from their bones. That’s the reality so we’re devaluing human beings who choose the lesser of the mind altering dangers to fulfill that pretty strong drive. That’s why when someone says "don’t make my Scotch illegal because even though my substance kills millions and destroys millions more lives, it’s legal and always will be so I got mine, fuck you. That’s damning someone with an addictive personality to liver damage, kidney damage etc and worse so that they won’t have perfect memory as they age. Maybe the desire to alter your state of consciousness is the gateway after all. What else explains Krokodil? Sounds easy to say no thanks after knowing what it does but people don’t care. It’s about chasing the high, not chasing the substance that is getting you high.
On the memory thing, I’m not so sold on it being a danger. No doubt my memory isn’t where it used to be but it’s holding strong for it’s age. It’s no worse than average though I still get told I have a great memory. In my 30’s I scored a perfect score on my college entrance exam baked out of my gourd. Relax, it wasn’t a hard test, but I was the only person in school history to do it.
I always joke that if marijuana steals your memory that I must have had the best memory in the world but I know that’s not close to being true. I think the real answer to the long term memory effects, like so many other effects of the drug isn’t really known yet and that saddens me. I hope much more research can be done on marijuana now that it appears to be legalizing. We really need to know the science on what it does to us to fight it more effectively.
Anyway, I rambled. I didn’t mean to but I’ve never said these things to other people. I’ve thought them but since marijuana was a “bad thing” I kept really private about it even around other smokers. I guess you can call this diversion the effect of years of repression lol. I just hope it adds another perspective to the legalization effort. We’re talking about people here, not statistics. I think we mostly all agree with this here but I wanted to put a personal face to the problem. Thanks.
about freedom? The freedom to be stupid if you want to be. Take riding a motorcycle without a helmet for instance, it simply isn’t smart. But however, who gave a state the right to tell you what you wear on your head? It is insurance driven, just like the anti-smoking crusade. It began with insurance companies. Slowly but surely through the years smokers have been turned into a socially unaccepted crowd for people to look down on. It’s rediculous when you step back and look at it. Any responsible smoker would not smoke around nonsmokers anyway, but we have morons out there that will. We as a people should have the right to be as dumb as we want to be without intereferance from the state or fed. Ok so Joe blow has an accident on a motorcycle without his helmet on and sustained a head injury, so what do we do? Insurance can now do what they are going to attempt to do anyway, not pay. I suggest that if you ride, and without a helmet, better save a lot of bucks for that one time in a million wreck, or don’t ride.Same with smoking, but for God’s sake leave our rights and freedoms alone. Just know the consequences. We should be free to smoke pot or not smoke pot, regardless of who says what. That is what this country was founded for, and it has become everything but that.
But when Joe Blow has his accident, and lies in a vegetative state for 10 years before dying, we all pay a price for that, do we not? We the people may have a right to be stupid, but as a society shouldn’t we try to discourage that, not celebrate it? If there were a real-world way for Joe to sign away his rights to taxpayer assistance should he have persistent brain damage, I’d be for it. As it is, the taxpayer picks up his tab. There *is *a good debate about where society’s right to try to mitigate citizen’s choices begins and ends. I don’t think I agree with you about where this particular line is drawn, though.
Just wanted to add one thing to my post. Alcohol became my trigger drug. That is, get me drunk and I wanted to get high. Still do but I know this but I haven’t had a drink in a very long time. Crack spoiled drinking for me lol.
Funny but begs the point, was weed my gateway to hard drugs or was alcohol? Since alcohol is legal I could have just as easily said yes to crack just being drunk. Most likely would have honestly. For me anyway, drug of choice has a very strong meaning. When given my (mild) drug of choice, I didn’t do other drugs, denied it and I chased the stronger high and gatewayed like a mofo. Can you really blame that on the weed which was the core but manageable addiction? I can’t say with any cites but inside of me, that the reality is the alcohol was the trigger and latching on to that is one of the realizations that help me back off the stronger drugs. That’s opinion though obviously. We need research.
We only pay a price because we as society decided we want to. That’s no given. I wouldn’t find fault with a society where one could waive their rights like this but I would be sad to live around people who felt that way. I’m a more charitable type in general but I don’t feel that there’s a right or a wrong answer to this question so I would have to make due with being sad. The price of that personal sadness pales compared to the sadness I feel for those whose lives can be aided by legalization so on second thought, I’d be all for your answer compared to where we are now but we could do better.
Truman Burbank, you can call me a jerk and insist that I owe you an apology all day long, but you’re still ignorant. It doesn’t make you a bad person, stupid, or what have you. Still, you have no idea what you’re talking about. You blithely dismiss millions of voters in Colorado and Washington states.
Answer me this: Why can I get medical marijuana at my dispensary in Durango, but recreational sales are prohibited? Why is it different in Telluride?
Why did twice as many voters vote to tax themselves on weed as those that voted for legalization in the first place? That’s right, we voted overwhelmingly to raise our own taxes.
This issue is a complex one and the citizens of Colorado are taking a slow, measured and thoughtful approach. I think we will get it right in the end. Your bleating on about “They’re selling weed to kids disguised as candy!!!1!!” shows that you have no more than a passing, 1950’s, Reefer Madness, understanding of what you’re talking about.
to pay for his stupidity. He can lay in a vegetative state at home, not the hospital. You completely missed the point. No one owes Joe Blow anything, he is not entitled to one thing in this world. No one is. That’s one of the major problems in this world is that people think they are entitled to things. It has always been and always will be a tough old world. I smoke cigarettes, and if they kill me, they kill me. I knew they may or may not give me cancer, I knew they definately will give me cardio vascular problems, but you know what? I don’t want anything from anyone, it was my decision, and I made alone, so I will die with it alone. It’s called responsibility, and dang well claim it, and so should Joe Blow.
He actually wrote
which is a far cry from ‘they’re selling weed to kids disguised as candy!!!1!!’
I’m for your general point but you’re a little out there on this call.
But if we’re not entitled to smoke cigarettes then it’s fair to ban their usage same with marijuana or driving without a helmet. I’m not sure entitlement is the issue here. This sounds more like a rights issue like the right to the pursuit of happiness.
I disagree. The shitty taste of beer, booze and cigarettes has never slowed any underage minor down. Unless I’m missing your point, putting THC in gummy bears is not going to increase children consuming it in any meaningful way that I can think of.
You’re missing my point. I agree with your point but it’s not an established belief and there is clearly room for discussion.
Truman was really saying he had a concern that would be a legitimate concern if you are not of the same mind we are. That’s understandable. Saying he had a concern because they WERE selling drugs to kids disguised as candy!!!1!! is needless hyperbole. If someone has a moderate opposition to your side you discuss that you don’t accuse them of making an argument they didn’t make.
That’s all I meant. Fighting his ignorance is cool but make sure you’re actually fighting what he’s actually saying.
Fair nuff.
The number of things that can harm small children if ingested and that can be found in the family home is very long. If you were to ban everything that failed a test based on a harm-to-children-if swallowed vs utility ratio, I doubt THC would even come close to getting banned unless you set the ratio at a level which would result in the banning of half your household contents.
In these sorts of debates, invariably perception of risk is skewed massively in favour of the familiar and against the unfamiliar.
Now, I don’t speak for anyone else but one of the reasons I was drawn to smoking marijuana for the first time was because it was subversive and hidden and precisely because it wasn’t lollipops and candy. It was a secret club.
It wasn’t a particularly important reason but it does inform why I hold a similar view as you on the effectiveness of marketing to kids. Candy wouldn’t be my method of choice.
Compelling debate if you’re the politician who votes for legalization and you’re in charge of things when that first case happens though. You will have to answer for your vote and you won’t be in control of the situation. Vote no and there’s no risk at all.
I will grant you: Poorly written and/or poorly enforced laws are next to meaningless. But only you can escape that for your local government. Lobby for revision of the law to be more meaningful without being overbearing, which is a fine and individually distinguished line to be sure.
Too often we sit back and go “HAW those stoopid politicians can’t get anything right.” and then never get active to force change that’s effective. It’s a lot more complex than just phoning your representative and yelling at them, but it’s certainly more effective for them to hear from their constituents than for them to find out when they get booted out of office.
Chaco, we’re in a forum called Great Debates. My post contained facts, which I backed up with actual cites, which was supported by another poster. And then I offered an opinion.
You brought insult without content. Anyone who likes is welcome to re-read the initial exchange. They will also probably note that you are stripping my contributions of any content except the creation of a strawman of your own devising.
Have at it.