# Legally can the federal government now force you to buy a Chevrolet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959 "2012-07-31T15:49:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/61 "2012-07-31T19:58:03Z")
The government cannot command citizens to buy anything. What it can do is use tax incentives to encourage the buying of things. The government already requires you to buy hybrid cars, sort of. YOu pay higher taxes if you buy a gas guzzler and you get a credit if you buy a hybrid. However, the important distinction is that as with the health care law, payment of the tax places you in 100% compliance, legally equal to someone who buys insurance. Same goes for the car, if you buy a hybrid you are legally as compliant as someone who buys a Hummer. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/62 "2012-07-31T20:01:16Z")
> [@dataguy](#): > > You actually know people who do this? Call an ambulance to avoid having to search for a parking space, etc? Any 9-1-1 center or ambulance office knows several of these people. There is a somewhat pejorative nickname, frequent flyers. There are patients who literally will jump out of the ambulance once it reaches the hospital and walk away. I have personally dealt with a patient who left the ER waiting room, walked a couple blocks, and called an ambulance thinking it would move him to the head of the line. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/63 "2012-07-31T20:11:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Bob walked around naked in his hometown, because his interpreted the anti-indecency laws in his town to apply only to lascivious conduct, and he was just wanted to be free, man. > > He got arrested. As I used this above, should Bob cry foul because the government doesn’t have the power to force him to buy clothing? ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/64 "2012-07-31T20:15:24Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Would you prefer that the government get into the insurance business itself—the way it handles police protection, fire protection, military defense, road maintainence, etc.? I am not sure where you live. But where I live the government does a fine job at these things. It’s actually the private industries that are sh\*t - Like AEP, AT&T, Verizon, etc. The Gov. has done some crappy stuff as far as starting unnecessary wars but that is another issue… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/65 "2012-07-31T20:19:03Z")
The government as cellular provider? Um, that wouldn’t work very well. The government is good at some things, but only things that are by necessity provided by one payer. Where competition is possible, the private sector will tend to do better. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/66 "2012-07-31T20:24:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The government as cellular provider? Um, that wouldn’t work very well. The government is good at some things, but only things that are by necessity provided by one payer. Where competition is possible, the private sector will tend to do better. I was not offering the gov as a cellphone provider. Everybody claims how the gov can’t do as good a job as the private sector. My point is that the private sector isn’t that great either (if there really is a difference between the government and big business, the line is too blurry to tell anyways.) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/67 "2012-07-31T20:27:11Z")
The difference is competition. If business has no competition, it does as badly as government. That’s why privatization usually doesn’t work, the incentives don’t change. But if the government tried to compete with private businesses offering the same product, they’d lose 9/10 times unless they were heavily subsidizing it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/68 "2012-07-31T20:28:47Z")
> [@tomcar](#): > > I am not sure where you live. But where I live the government does a fine job at these things. I agree (for the most part). My question was not a rhetorical one, and was addressed to a specific poster and, by extension, to anyone who has a problem with the federal government “ordering you to buy something from a private company.” Having the government simply take over the health insurance business might or might not work out okay, but the existing insurance companies aren’t going to let it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/69 "2012-07-31T20:28:55Z")
I dunno, the goverment did a pretty fair job of building the internet. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/70 "2012-07-31T20:31:40Z")
[QUOTE=tomcar] I was not offering the gov as a cellphone provider. Everybody claims how the gov can’t do as good a job as the private sector. My point is that the private sector isn’t that great either (if there really is a difference between the government and big business, the line is too blurry to tell anyways.) [/QUOTE] The difference being that if you don’t like a product or service from a private company you generally have options…options you lack with the government. Don’t like Microsoft OS? Well, get a Mac…or a Linux OS. Don’t like Chevy? Well, unless the government does force us all to buy them you could always get a Toyota. Don’t like Verizon? Go with AT&T, or Sprint, or T-Mobile…or myriad other cell phone companies. You have choices with private industry. However, don’t like the war in Iraq? Well, tough titty, you are paying for it anyway little cow boy. Want Universal Health Care? Again, tough…you can’t have it unless you want to move to another country. Hell, think they are doing a shitty job with the roads (they do here in New Mexico)? Got to hate that…you are fucked since you have pretty much no say in it. Oh, you can vote, but unless there is a clear majority of voters who agree with you (or are voting the same as you are anyway), you pretty much have no recourse except to move to somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/71 "2012-07-31T20:31:40Z")
The trouble is that in private business making a quick profit, selling off the assets of the company and firing everybody counts as a “win” as long as the guys on top come out ahead. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/72 "2012-07-31T20:33:57Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I dunno, the goverment did a pretty fair job of building the internet. They DEVELOPED the initial concept (for reasons that have zero to do with how it’s used today), but they had virtually nothing to do with the internet as you know it today. It was private industry that gave you pretty much all you are using right now. The biggest thing the government did besides the early development was to get out of the way and allow it to be opened up to the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/73 "2012-07-31T20:38:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Let’s try an analogy, because those ALWAYS work Brilliant. I can’t wait to see people respond to it. (Not in a _ha-ha-wait’ll-they-see-this-argument_ way, but in that it presents the issue clearly and cleanly and I’m actually interested in the response.) > [@Iggy](#): > > Could Obama have told U.S. Solicitor General Donald Verrilli that, as a matter of principle he (Obama) does not believe the mandate is a tax and Verrilli is not to argue that it is before the Supreme Court? Why didn’t Obama do that? I’m also interested in this. I’m skeptical that he _could_ do that. The Solicitor General has a duty to defend the laws passed by Congress and signed by the president. I’m not sure the president can–or if he can, _should_–unilaterally tell the SG to soft-peddle a particular defense because of political concerns. Does anyone know the law on this matter? > [@babygoat666](#): > > Here’s some precedence from that socialist George Washington: [link](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/06/26/george-washingtons-individual-mandates/) That’s a great article. Thanks! > [@XT](#): > > Theoretical questions like this are, IMHO, silly. The government COULD do a lot of things. They could, for instance, reinstitute the draft. During the last draft, the government gave deferrals for people in college–something they had to _pay for_. That means that the government could reinstitute the draft and offer deferments only to people who buy Chevys. It could even order the drafted soldiers to stand in the middle of Kabul holding signs with pictures of Mohammad! How can this be constitutional? See what happens when you elect a socialist Muslim from Kenya! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/74 "2012-07-31T20:41:30Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You have choices with private industry. As long as the government insures that we have choices (re: anti-monopoly regulations) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/75 "2012-07-31T20:42:31Z")
I’ve got no trouble with government regulating private industry. That’s one of their roles, IMHO. Now, where the bar is set would probably be a debate…but that there should be a bar? Not from me. -XT ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/76 "2012-07-31T20:48:22Z")
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that State governments, which generally don’t operate under constitutions that are as restrictive as the US one, can pretty much do whatever they want. So if Ohio told me that I had to have a Chevy in my driveway by the end of the week or I’d go to jail, I’d pretty much just have to go buy a Chevy. In fact, the whole objection to the ACA was the the Federal government was overstepping it’s specific boundaries, not that it was doing something that a State government couldn’t already do (I’m looking at you, Mass.) I’m also assuming it’s been this way since 1803, and to my knowledge, nobody freaked out about this before. Probably because of voting (as was pointed out early on in the thread). Yay voting! ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/77 "2012-07-31T20:53:02Z")
> [@XT](#): > > They DEVELOPED the initial concept (for reasons that have zero to do with how it’s used today), but they had virtually nothing to do with the internet as you know it today. It was private industry that gave you pretty much all you are using right now. The biggest thing the government did besides the early development was to get out of the way and allow it to be opened up to the general public. You’re [wrong](http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/07/who_invented_the_internet_the_outrageous_conservative_claim_that_every_tech_innovation_came_from_private_enterprise_.html). The government was part of every step in the development of the internet. And where private persons were instrumental in creating parts of the internet, they were government funded. In fact, private corporations like AT&T tried to inhibit the internet. Why would they support something that would supplant their existing phone lines and monopolies? Even if you don’t know anything about the internet, answer that question. And how many years did it take for online commerce to be profitable? Decades? No company would bet their bottom line on a gigantic project whose profitability was iffy and unpredictable. The government had to invent the internet, no one else could ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/78 "2012-07-31T20:54:09Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You are either not very good at understanding others, or you’re very good at deliberately not understanding others. > > I pose a question about the reason for being angry about this. You didn’t actually answer the question. You continued the “because they’re making me buy it!” line. I referred to that as asinine if it is something you have and want. I have already explained my reasoning there. > > How about YOU offer up something more than frothing anger that you’re being forced to buy something you both have and want? Let’s try this. You ask a very direct question and I will answer it. I thought I did this, but just to be sure, let’s try again. You’re question is : \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_? ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/79 "2012-07-31T20:54:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The difference is competition. If business has no competition, it does as badly as government. That’s why privatization usually doesn’t work, the incentives don’t change. > > But if the government tried to compete with private businesses offering the same product, they’d lose 9/10 times unless they were heavily subsidizing it. I hate to state the obvious here but all the big businesses are being subsidized too, in terms of taxs breaks, preferential treatment, bailouts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959/80 "2012-07-31T20:57:28Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > You’re [wrong](http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/07/who_invented_the_internet_the_outrageous_conservative_claim_that_every_tech_innovation_came_from_private_enterprise_.html). The government was part of every step in the development of the internet. And where private persons were instrumental in creating parts of the internet, they were government funded. In fact, private corporations like AT&T tried to inhibit the internet. Why would they support something that would supplant their existing phone lines and monopolies? Even if you don’t know anything about the internet, answer that question. And how many years did it take for online commerce to be profitable? Decades? No company would bet their bottom line on a gigantic project whose profitability was iffy and unpredictable. The government had to invent the internet, no one else could +1 I was going to bring up big businesses trying to stifle internet usage. Thats why Google is creating infrastructure. Once they do, Verizon and AT&T will be things of the past. They are getting to greedy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legally-can-the-federal-government-now-force-you-to-buy-a-chevrolet/629959.md?page=5)