# Legends of How Countries Got Thier Names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 12, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348 "2013-07-12T19:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/21 "2013-07-13T01:06:14Z")
The state I am from, Oregon, was named for ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/22 "2013-07-13T01:09:24Z")
More on Yucatan: Now I finished that article. A scholar in 1890 found a bit of evidence that one of the four goofy meanings (“these are our wives’ necklaces”) might not have been so goofy – it may have actually referred to some land, that under control of the powerful native Itzaes family. The full name, Yucalpeten, really meant “the LAND of our wives’ necklaces” (notice the land comprising northern, lowland Guatemala is still the “Peten”), with some metaphorical, poetic evocation. I don’t know…I personally find any of the other three theories equally plausible. For You…was Oregon named for you? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/23 "2013-07-13T01:13:17Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And of course we’ve all heard the one about Staten Island: > > When Henry Hudson reached New York Harbor, he pointed to a place just southwest of him, and asked “'stat an island?” I remember that joke from the “New York Kids’ Book,” one of my bibles when I was 8 or 9 years old (in the late '70s.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/24 "2013-07-13T01:28:57Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > . . . wouldn’t that suggest that these are after-the-fact folk etymologies used to explain the unexplainable? Serious answer: yes, in general, if the same legend is told about multiple places (which is quite common), it is generally evidence that the story is not true for any of the places. It’s not definitive proof, though. It could be true, or it could be true of one place but the story is borrowed to apply to another. Generally, a legend scholar will examine the variants of a story over time and place, gathering as much context as possible from history and contemporary oral tradition to make a judgement. The relationship of legends to reality is generally not zero. And, pace **Bozuit** , in academia legends and myths are two different genres and approched with different theoretical tools. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/25 "2013-07-13T02:52:02Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > edit: and the a tighter translation would be “sun origin” with the Nip, [snip] part being “sun”, and the pon, [snip] part being “origin” No, ‘Ni’ is sun, ‘ppon’ is origin. Though that looks weird, and isn’t how the character would be pronounced in isolation like that (which would be ‘hon’)…but the double-p is all part of the second syllable, in any case. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/26 "2013-07-13T03:49:59Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > No, ‘Ni’ is sun, ‘ppon’ is origin. Though that looks weird, and isn’t how the character would be pronounced in isolation like that (which would be ‘hon’)…but the double-p is all part of the second syllable, in any case. _yaht_ is Cantonese for day or sun, _bun_ is a word that is used to enumerate books, but its graphic origin is a tree, so “yaht bun” together kind of looks like the sun rising behind a tree – this also resembles the construction of the Chinese character for “east”, so one could see how the construction may have developed. Modern Cantonese is believed to sound very much like to the common Chinese language of centuries past, so it is quite possible that “Japan” is of Chinese origin. My guess would be that “Nippon” is much more recent, probably not of Chinese origin, inasmuch as it has not really been a unified nation for even as long as the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/27 "2013-07-13T03:52:39Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > The English word “Japan” (as distinct from “Nihon” or “Nippon”, as the Japanese say it) supposedly comes from Europeans asking in China what that country over there was called, and then typically badly transliterating it. Not “badly”, but into a different set of phonetic representation and with a different transliteration system than you’re used to. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/28 "2013-07-13T04:16:16Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Nippon is Japanese. In Mandarin it’s pronounced “Zr Ben” (pin yin Ri Ben). In Cantonese, it’s Yat Boon. Japan seems to fit within tolerance of all of those. > > edit: and the a tighter translation would be “sun origin” with the Nip, Ri, Yat, and Jap part being “sun”, and the pon, ben, boon, pan part being “origin” Marco Polo called Japan _Zipango_. I always assumed he got this from the Chinese version of the name, and it looks as if _Zr Ben_ could easily lead to _Zipango_. I could then easily see _Zipango_ morphing through European languages to _Japan_. This doesn’t depend upon the historical accident of one trader just happening to bring back a name – even polo admits that he and his family were by no means the only European traders in China. I don’t know if it’s correct or not, either, but years ago I was struck by the similarities, and it seemed to at least provisionally be a plausible etymology for the name “Japan”. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/29 "2013-07-13T04:19:57Z")
> [@For You](#): > > _yaht_ is Cantonese for day or sun, _bun_ is a word that is used to enumerate books, but its graphic origin is a tree, so “yaht bun” together kind of looks like the sun rising behind a tree – this also resembles the construction of the Chinese character for “east”, so one could see how the construction may have developed. The second character (本) in the Japanese word for Japan (日本 - Nippon or Nihon) by itself usually means “book” – the “hon” reading presumably is cognate with the Cantonese “bun” for the same character. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/30 "2013-07-13T06:44:59Z")
And as everyone knows, “Iceland” was named to discourage furriners from moving there. They all went to Greenland instead. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/31 "2013-07-13T10:50:59Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Nippon is Japanese. In Mandarin it’s pronounced “Zr Ben” (pin yin Ri Ben). In Cantonese, it’s Yat Boon. Japan seems to fit within tolerance of all of those. > > edit: and the a tighter translation would be “sun origin” with the Nip, Ri, Yat, and Jap part being “sun”, and the pon, ben, boon, pan part being “origin” And I head that it was the Shanghai-ese call it “Japan” . ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/32 "2013-07-14T05:35:10Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > … Hengist requested a reward of some land, but after argument he agreed to accept only as much land as he could encompass with an ox hide. The Briton thought this would mean only a few useless square feet, but Hengist cut the hide into small thongs, tied them together, and with them was able to encircle a small hill, large enough to build a fort. This foothold helped to enable the success of the eventual Germanic invasion… The same story is told about [the founding of Carthage by Dido](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dido_(Queen_of_Carthage)#Early_accounts): > [@](#): > > Eventually Dido and her followers arrived on the coast of North Africa where Dido asked the Berber king Iarbas[2][3] for a small bit of land for a temporary refuge until she could continue her journeying, only as much land as could be encompassed by an oxhide. They agreed. Dido cut the oxhide into fine strips so that she had enough to encircle an entire nearby hill, which was therefore afterwards named Byrsa “hide”. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/33 "2013-07-14T05:47:53Z")
> [@For You](#): > > My guess would be that “Nippon” is much more recent, probably not of Chinese origin, inasmuch as it has not really been a unified nation for even as long as the USA. The name which is read nowadays as _Nihon_ or _Nippon_ – 日本 – is first attested in 8th century CE Tang chronicles that state that in 702 CE, the Tang court received a message notifying them that the land previously known as 倭 (_Wa_) changed its name to 日本. This change came about the rise of the Yamato clan, as a matter of fact it is believed that at first the characters 日本 were _ate-ji_ (Chinese characters arbitrarily stuck to a Japanese word with no regard to reading or meaning) and were read as _Yamato_. All records show that 日本 was chosen because Japan was the land closest to the rising sun. Early readings of 日本 were belied to be _Nippon_ or _Jippon_. By itself, 本 in modern Chinese is used as a counter for words, but it did (and still does) also mean “origin” in compounds. See 本能 (_Běnnéng_ – instinct) or 本源 (\* Běnyuán\* – source/origin.) By the way, it’s true that Japanese history is regularly punctuated by civil wars, but the land that roughly corresponds to modern Japan (Honshu - Shikoku - Kyushu) was united several times since the 8th century, the last times being arguably in 1590, a few years before the American declaration of independence. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/34 "2013-07-14T06:00:45Z")
The Mandarin name for Japan is Ribenguo, ‘sun origin country’. The character for origin 本 literally means ‘root’: it shows a tree’s roots extending below the level of the ground. In the old Wade-Giles romanization of Mandarin, you can see the origin of the name _Japan_ more easily: instead of Ri-ben, the same characters 日本 used to be romanized as **Jih-pen**. The word for country, guo, can be detected in Marco Polo’s version \*Cipangu \*(remember that in Italian the letter _c_ before _i_ is pronounced like English ch). ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/35 "2013-07-14T06:21:47Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > By itself, 本 in modern Chinese is used as a counter for words Sorry, typo, should read: counter for _books_. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/36 "2013-07-14T07:48:30Z")
Egypt, from Greek Αἰγύπτος _Aigyptos_, originated as the Egyptian phrase _ḥwt-k3-Ptḥ_ ‘Estate of the _Ka_ (spirit) of Ptah (creator god)’, which was the name for the main Ptah temple complex in Memphis, the center of his cultus, and by extension the whole city of Memphis, and by extension the whole country. The Arabic form of this name, قبط _Qubṭ_, is the origin of the name _Copt_. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/37 "2013-07-14T08:34:13Z")
> [@For You](#): > > The state I am from, Oregon, was named for Cute. Real cute. (That is, assuming you meant to post it that way and didn’t just hit “post” by accident.) The reason it’s cute is that Oregon is the whole-nine-yards of state names. That is, there’s lots of ideas of its origin (most patently wrong) but no one really knows the origin. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/38 "2013-07-14T11:41:10Z")
“Honduras” means “deeps” (as in, the kinds of places you spend 20 minutes in). Indeed, there is a deep trench off the Caribbean coast of Honduras – it’s the boundary between the Caribbean plate (Chortis terrane, specifically) and what you might call part of the North American plate (Maya terrane, specifically). You can see the suture continue as two curving, parallel valleys which cut right across Guatemala (one contains its longest river, the Motagua). The line gets fuzzy and complicated in western Guatemala, and finally meets the Pacific plate in several spots depending on your criteria. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/39 "2013-07-15T04:09:57Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Cute. Real cute. (That is, assuming you meant to post it that way and didn’t just hit “post” by accident.) > > The reason it’s cute is that Oregon is the whole-nine-yards of state names. That is, there’s lots of ideas of its origin (most patently wrong) but no one really knows the origin. Some years ago, a guy made a strong claim about the origin of the name. It just did not seem right to me – not the specifics of the theory but the temerity of it. I was just short of indignant. No one knows for sure whence the name, and that is as it ought to be. Some uncertainties are just meant to be. Now, if only the rest of the country could figure out how to pronounce it … ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348/40 "2013-07-15T05:00:25Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > The word for country, guo, can be detected in Marco Polo’s version \*Cipangu \*(remember that in Italian the letter _c_ before _i_ is pronounced like English ch). That’s the ch in chocolate, not the other ones (hey, I’ve run into three different pronunciations of the digraph, but I still haven’t heard anybody ask for some kokolate). España comes from Hispania and this from the greek Hesperia (which I can’t spell right), but I’ve never heard anything about where Hesperia sprang from. The name used to refer to the Iberian Peninsula; the only time “Hispania” has been fully united (even if it was as a personal union) since the Muslim invasion of the Goth Kingdom of Toledo was under Phillip II. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legends-of-how-countries-got-thier-names/663348.md?page=3)