I discovered last weekend that Bosphorus means ‘ford for crossing oxen’, i.e. Oxford.
In England many [most] places didn’t really get a name until the map makers came along and asked. They would have made up their own spelling for a place that was probably said to them in an incomprehensible local accent. The person who said it may only be saying the name he uses, while his neighbour may use a different one. This is also what probably happened elsewhere in the world.
If you think about it, the original cave people only needed ‘here’ and ‘over there’. That would then be extended to ‘by the water’ and ‘over the hill’ etc. Neighbours would be ‘us’ and ‘them’, but if there were two neighbours then some identifying characteristic would be needed.
Once you start from there you can build a whole library of names, but they are unique to you and your family/tribe. It’s only when someone needs a map that the name becomes important.
But “when the mapmakers came along” is pre-Roman times in much of Europe and the Mediterranean basin; even earlier in other places. I’d say the merchants rather than the cartographers, though.
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“Cave people” didn’t normally live in caves. They just did some artwork in them.
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One of the main characteristics of humans is their ability to range widely. Settlement didn’t come about until agriculture and that’s long, long after the time of the “original cave people.”
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Even in the Stone Age, there was long-ranging commerce. People would actually have to have names for things, not just “here” and “over there.”
It’s the same case with Idaho. We know it doesn’t mean “Gem of the mountains,” or anything along those lines, but nobody knows where the name really came from.
And then there are the name origins that are just outright bullshit. Go and read the Wiki page for Arizona, specifically the part for etymology. (Section 1). Notice how none of the theories mention the fact that zona is the spanish word for “place” or “area”, and ari most likely derives from “arid.” It’s really obvious that Arizona most likely simply means “Arid Place,” or basically, The Desert.
本 is not a counter for words, or for books. It’s a counter for long things such as pencils.
The counter for books is 冊 satsu.
In Japanese. In Chinese 本 is used to count books.
本2冊 : two books in Japanese
书2本 : two books in Chinese
True. Consider that Indian languages would not have a word meaning “gem”, since they didn’t have gems.
But I consider Oregon to be the whole-nine-yards of state names because of the multiplicity of the proposed etymologies it has had over the years. There’ve been something like 15 or 20 of them, including a couple new ones in the last 10 years or so (first the ooligan one, then from a couple Mohegan words). Idaho, by contrast, only has about three or four proposed origins.
But Spanish puts the adjective after the noun, so the phrase would be zona arida. I won’t say it’s impossible to get Arizona from that, but it’s not too likely.
[QUOTE=dtilque]
But Spanish puts the adjective after the noun, so the phrase would be zona arida. I won’t say it’s impossible to get Arizona from that, but it’s not too likely.
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Agree. The mid-20th-C Mexican cinematic comedian Cantinflas suggested (not seriously) that it’s from “Narizona,” which means “woman with a big nose.”
Not always, one of the reasons to put it before is for emphasis; another is to be poetic. We don’t speak of la muralla grande, it’s la gran muralla - because it’s not just “the big wall” but “the fuckingestbiggest wall”. Some literary works are full of hermosas doncellas (beautiful maidens) and bravos guerreros (brave warriors).
This kind of discuss needs a reference to Terry Pratchett.
[QUOTE=Terry Pratchett]
When the first explorers from the warm lands around the Circle Sea travelled into the chilly hinterland they filled in the blank spaces on their maps by grabbing the nearest native, pointing at some distant landmark, speaking very clearly in a loud voice, and writing down whatever the bemused man told them. Thus were immortalised in generations of atlases such geographical oddities as Just A Mountain, I Don’t Know, What? and, of course, Your Finger You Fool.
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I see. My fault for not reading carefully. But on the good side, I’ve learned something.
Actually, I was certain that you already knew how the counter “hon” is used in Japanese, but I couldn’t think of a way of saying “As I’m sure you already know” that didn’t sound patronising.
Another version of the story I’ve heard is the Aborigine’s reply was “What strange clothes you’re wearing”. Obviously not true, but thought the data point might be of interest.
The island of Yap (Yes, I know it is not really a country. Although they have thought they were at times) does have an interesting story about how they got their name.
When the first Westerner (believed to be Captain Cook, but he gets credit for so much) approached the island and the locals paddled out in their canoes to greet him and were waving their paddles around in celebration as Pacific islanders are wont to do, Cook (or whomever) gestured past the celebrating islanders towards the island and asked his translator what that (the island) was. The translator misunderstood, thinking he was pointing at the upraised paddles so he said, “Yap” meaning “paddle.”
To this day the Yappese will tell you they are just happy that the translator didn’t think the Captain was gesturing at something really embarrassing.