# Legion, season 2 (FX show) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 3, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760 "2018-04-03T22:51:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/41 "2018-07-02T22:26:31Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > … The season worked for me, and in part by playing against traditional narrative expectations. In season 1 we start out with “David is crazy” and then move on to “David is crazy but has powers” and then to “David isn’t crazy; he has powers AND a monster in his head” and, at the end, we arrive at “David has powers but isn’t crazy and the monster is out of his head”. Except (as Syd and Farouk both point out), the truth is that David actually IS crazy; it wasn’t the monster making him so. The monster was…well, not a “gift” but certainly a separate add-on. > > We (the audience) are even warned along the way about the dangers of seeing what we want to believe is true rather than what is really there. And we wanted to believe that David was the good guy who would save the day and get the girl… [/SIZE] Your entire post was well-argued, but I’ll highlight just this bit. Yes, this idea of warning the audience against believing what we want to believe, might fairly be said to be a theme in Noah Hawley’s work. It’s certainly on display in _Fargo_. And the fact that this show is–at least technically–a “Marvel superhero” story, gave Hawley a rare chance to take his message to a group of consumers of fiction who typically want their fiction served up in a form with clear limits and standard tropes. Sure, they want some surprises along the way–but there are elements that must follow certain conventions. If not, a very impassioned and vociferous backlash ensues. This show did not adhere to those conventions–with fascinating results. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/42 "2018-07-02T22:58:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > We (the audience) are even warned along the way about the dangers of seeing what we want to believe is true rather than what is really there. And we wanted to believe that David was the good guy who would save the day and get the girl. But the truth is that David - while not evil per se - is delusional, secretive, manipulative and (when he feels it is justified) violent. We see this in his behavior, and in the behavior of his alt-universe selves\*. He may believe himself to be the good guy who deserves the girl, just as we do, but in the end this is not the truth, and the truth finally breaks him. Part of this is because outside of David the main POV we get is Syds, whos been pretty irrationally infatuated with David since season 1. And who also happens to be kinda screwed in the head, as per her flashbacks episode. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/43 "2018-07-03T01:05:44Z")
I’m not so sure how crazy David is. Secretive? Only because Syd, future-Syd but Syd, told him he could not tell, and he soon broke down and told present-Syd anyway. He did not share that he allowed future-Syd to kiss him goodbye? Secretive lite. Delusional? He was the non-delusional one bring each one back from the delusions they were trapped inside. Were his interactions with the Shadow King delusions? It seems like Farouk really harvest David’s sister’s body and that that was not a delusion. Manipulative? He was more the subject of manipulation, by future-Syd, by Farouk, by the team of Division 3. Paranoid about their manipulating him? Is it paranoia when it is true? Being driven to violence by that? And by the thought that Farouk has Syd somewhere and won’t tell? I think many of us putatively rational people would feel violence was justified at that point as well. Understood that we as viewers have him and his POV as our narrator and our POV and he is a unreliable vantage point. What he sees (and thus we see) may be delusions. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/44 "2018-07-03T23:06:07Z")
I’m still not clear on why Melanie clubbed whatsizname in the hallway and dragged him into her room. What was that all about? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/45 "2018-07-04T00:21:42Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I’m still not clear on why Melanie clubbed whatsizname in the hallway and dragged him into her room. What was that all about? I’m not sure that was explained fully, but it seems to be connected with what we saw later of Melanie helping Farouk get his body back. (Had she been promised the reunion with her husband Oliver inside the ice cube, in return? Or was she possessed/controlled by Farouk? Or something else?) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/46 "2018-07-04T00:40:15Z")
Just remember … _she’s_ one of the _sane_ non-delusional ones arguing that _David_ is insane for using violence against someone who has killed his sister and harvested her body and had kidnapped the woman he loves and trusts. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/47 "2018-07-07T18:26:22Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Just remember … _she’s_ one of the _sane_ non-delusional ones arguing that _David_ is insane for using violence against someone who has killed his sister and harvested her body and had kidnapped the woman he loves and trusts. Maybe the show is giving a taste of what it’s like to be delusional. We are searching for something, anything that we can prove is the actual reality. Very interesting. . . ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/48 "2018-07-08T23:45:13Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Just remember … _she’s_ one of the _sane_ non-delusional ones arguing that _David_ is insane for using violence against someone who has killed his sister and harvested her body and had kidnapped the woman he loves and trusts. Their main argument is that he is going to cause the end of the world. He is insane, we see him talking to his multiple personalities. He also did 100% rape Syd. A post upthread argued that they would never let a mass murderer like Farouk just walk around, but he is the only one with any hope of containing David, who they believe is going to cause the end of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/49 "2018-07-09T08:50:12Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Their main argument is that he is going to cause the end of the world. He is insane, we see him talking to his multiple personalities. He also did 100% rape Syd. A post upthread argued that they would never let a mass murderer like Farouk just walk around, but he is the only one with any hope of containing David, who they believe is going to cause the end of the world. That’s the argument for not killing Farouk. That’s not the argument for just letting him wander around freely. There are presumably other options. As already discussed, there is a danger in trying to find the “good guy” in a world full of flawed people. Syd chose to side with Farouk because Farouk killed “some people” while David kills “everyone”. When your choices are “evil guy who only kills occasionally but can operate from a position of enlightened self-interest” and “insane guy who may well kill everybody in the world for no rational reason” you’re not really going to be handing out Miss Congeniality prizes at the end of it. If you’re lucky and you’ve made the right choices, the best you can hope for is to be alive along with the vast majority of humanity. By the by, I did appreciate the subtle humor in the big fight scene: David and Farouk engage in a big mystical psychic battle involving them floating over the landscape and transmorphing into various astral shapes, then David wins the battle by hitting Farouk with a rock. Sometimes simple is better. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/50 "2018-07-09T10:17:47Z")
Was the desert real or representative? If real, what is with the giant plug hole? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/51 "2018-07-09T12:18:19Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That’s the argument for not killing Farouk. That’s not the argument for just letting him wander around freely. There are presumably other options. If you need him to be able to use his power against David what is the point of not letting him walk around free? if he can use his power he is going to be free, you might as well let him instead of making him force you. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/52 "2018-07-13T05:40:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > We (the audience) are even warned along the way about the dangers of seeing what we want to believe is true rather than what is really there. And we wanted to believe that David was the good guy who would save the day and get the girl. But the truth is that David - while not evil per se - is delusional, secretive, manipulative and (when he feels it is justified) violent. We see this in his behavior, and in the behavior of his alt-universe selves\*. He may believe himself to be the good guy who deserves the girl, just as we do, but in the end this is not the truth, and the truth finally breaks him. There’s also the question of what it even means for somebody like David to be ‘normal’—to us, normal is defined in a consensus way, via behavior, shared perception, and so on. But David really isn’t on the same spectrum; his reality is vastly different from ours. Other people’s minds are excluded from our experience, but not from his. We are limited in ways he isn’t, and our minds are shaped by those limitations, by the way the world kicks back against us. But David can shape the world according to his will, rather than have his will frustrated by brushing up against reality. Most superheroes (or indeed villains) are just humans who can do extraordinary things, but without that fact really reflecting back on them. They’re like what you and I would do in a virtual reality—power fantasies of those that don’t have, and arguably don’t know, real power. David is different in that he simply isn’t human in that sense, or at least, I think that’s another angle the show wants to offer us (beyond insane/not insane): that he’s actually a god, with his delusion being that he is just a human who can do extraordinary things. Another layer of the show, I think, is that they’re playing with the idea that a film, or a show, is never a straight-up depiction of what occurs—it’s not like somebody in-show just happened to have a camera on them. Every picture is really a visual symbol, and thus, doesn’t need to show things ‘as they happen’. For example, when a car blows up in some over-exaggerated manner in some action flic, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the film-maker didn’t know that cars don’t do that, but rather, that they wanted to convey the sort of adrenaline rush felt in that sort of situation, and used a visual shorthand to do so. In the same way, I think, images in this show should be interpreted—and not just when they are on the astral plane. So something like finding that giant plug in the desert may not be a straight-up visual depiction of what the characters saw, but rather, depict their experience, perhaps interpretation of what they are confronted with. Then again, there’s also lots of randomness and inconsistency—but even here, it’s not an accidental inconsistency, but (at least in parts) deliberate—in a post earlier on, I likened it to ‘practice’, to shake the viewer from their ingrained expectations of how this sort of story should work. Besides, many things in real life are just random, because we only ever see part of it, and we take that completely in stride—we’re just used to fiction taking every little detail and serving us up a reason for it with a nice little bow on top. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/53 "2018-07-14T01:14:56Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > …So something like finding that giant plug in the desert may not be a straight-up visual depiction of what the characters saw, but rather, depict their experience, perhaps interpretation of what they are confronted with. > > Then again, there’s also lots of randomness and inconsistency—but even here, it’s not an accidental inconsistency, but (at least in parts) deliberate—in a post earlier on, I likened it to ‘practice’, to shake the viewer from their ingrained expectations of how this sort of story should work. Besides, many things in real life are just random, because we only ever see part of it, and we take that completely in stride—we’re just used to fiction taking every little detail and serving us up a reason for it with a nice little bow on top. Your entire post is convincing, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Noah Hawley would give it his stamp of approval. Certainly it describes a level of abstract conceptualization of the process of presenting filmed story that could fit few other works. (And again the thought of David Lynch’s creations arises, in me, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/54 "2018-07-16T14:13:52Z")
I fell in love with this show. I actually missed all of season 1 and my first viewing was Chapter 9, 1st episode of season 2. I got hooked, even though I had no idea what was going on. I made my friend Todd come over and explain to me who these characters were, since he had seen season 1, but hearing second-hand explanations isn’t the same as experiencing it. I managed to get season 1 (from the _ **dark web** _) recently. The first few episodes did nothing to clear up any mysteries. It instead introduced new ones. It hooked me even more. When I got to chapter 8, I knew I had to rewatch season 2, which I finally completed yesterday. Now I want to watch the whole thing again. By bingeing, I was able to pick up on how minor scenes from previous episodes were more fully expanded later. For example, Sid tells David of her first sexual experience via her mother. In the later episode where David rescues his friends from the Maze, he witnesses the actual act she told him about. Now everything makes sense! Well, almost everything. I’m not quite sure why Oliver was so cooperative with Farouk. Maybe he was grateful that Farouk didn’t poison his mind while possessing his body, or decided it was better join him instead of fighting him. Still, he seemed to relish provoking David into becoming a psycho monster, and enlisted Melanie’s help to do so, even though she resented him for deserting her for the ice cube. It was also hard to keep track of who or what Lenny was. At first, she’s a man, then a girl, then David’s buddy in his younger years, but that turned out to be a false memory planted by Farouk. Then, she was real, but possessed by Farouk, then got fused inside a wall. Then, at some point Farouk and Oliver kidnap Amy and rearrange her molecules to become Lenny, but Amy’s psyche is still in her(Lenny’s) body. Put in top of that the part was originally supposed to be for a man, but Aubrey Plaza is such a talented yet crazy bitch, the show makers decided she should be Lenny. Another lingering storyline: The face of David’s father (or adoptive father) is in shadow during the scenes where he’s reading him the Angry Boy stories, and his identity is never revealed. Charles Xavier is the real father in Marvel Comics, but if it’s him, it seems like a very non-Xavier thing to do. Maybe season 3 will reveal more. The show makers seem to keep track of all those lingering issues pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/55 "2018-07-16T14:55:30Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Another lingering storyline: The face of David’s father (or adoptive father) is in shadow during the scenes where he’s reading him the Angry Boy stories, and his identity is never revealed. Charles Xavier is the real father in Marvel Comics, but if it’s him, it seems like a very non-Xavier thing to do. Maybe season 3 will reveal more. The show makers seem to keep track of all those lingering issues pretty well. IIRC it is very heavily implied in season 1 that Charles Xavier is David’s real father (we see the wheelchair in the scene where he is brought to the house as an infant, and the whole chalk-drawn psychic battle implies it as well). The father reading the story would have been his adoptive one. ---
**Author:** ![voidPortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ed8c4c/32.png) [@voidPortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voidPortal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/56 "2018-07-16T18:27:25Z")
Wait till they bring in Franklin Richards next year! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/57 "2018-07-16T21:50:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > IIRC it is very heavily implied in season 1 that Charles Xavier is David’s real father (we see the wheelchair in the scene where he is brought to the house as an infant, and the whole chalk-drawn psychic battle implies it as well). **The father reading the story would have been his adoptive one**. Right—I don’t think there was any intention of implying that Xavier had raised David. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/58 "2018-07-16T23:31:37Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > It was also hard to keep track of who or what Lenny was. At first, she’s a man, then a girl, then David’s buddy in his younger years, but that turned out to be a false memory planted by Farouk. Then, she was real, but possessed by Farouk, then got fused inside a wall. Then, at some point Farouk and Oliver kidnap Amy and rearrange her molecules to become Lenny, but Amy’s psyche is still in her(Lenny’s) body. Put in top of that the part was originally supposed to be for a man, but Aubrey Plaza is such a talented yet crazy bitch, the show makers decided she should be Lenny. You really need to keep track of why you’re being shown what is being shown: the part where Lenny was a guy was a visual depiction of David (badly) explaining things to someone. It briefly tricks the viewer into being just as confused as David’s listener. Since you’ve seen Season 2, you know that for most of Season 1, who we thought was Lenny was _actually_ the Shadow King/Farouk. “Real” Lenny died in the wall. The Lenny that we saw for the rest of the season was Farouk wearing Lenny “like a mask”, as she put it. “Real” Lenny wasn’t possessed by Farouk, although she maybe might have been controlled by him at various points before her death. We didn’t see the real Lenny again outside of flashbacks, until Season 2 when she’s floating in a pool with Oliver in what is probably the astral plane. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/59 "2019-02-05T22:24:41Z")
Couple updates: Next season will be the last, and [Harry Lloyd is going to play Professor X](https://news.avclub.com/davids-famous-father-will-finally-stop-by-legion-next-s-1832371710) Not sure how he’s going to be used (flashbacks? Time travel?) considering he’s a year younger than Dan Stevens. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760/60 "2019-02-05T22:52:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > IIRC it is very heavily implied in season 1 that Charles Xavier is David’s real father (we see the wheelchair in the scene where he is brought to the house as an infant, and the whole chalk-drawn psychic battle implies it as well). The father reading the story would have been his adoptive one. It seemed to me to be very, very lightly implied, probably apparent only to people who already knew Xavier was his father. I was watching for this while watching Legion because I had been accused of posting A Spoiler So Big It Might Be Trolling in another thread (starting at post 22 [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813422)) and never saw The Big Obvious Reveal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legion-season-2-fx-show/811760.md?page=4)