# Legitimate use of Double Negatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372 "2008-12-31T17:17:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/21 "2009-01-01T03:31:42Z")
I don’t think the OP is far-off in disliking this practice but since it is becoming decreasingly unacceptable, there is insufficient resistance to fail to prevent the lack of displacement of the uncomplicated form which has no shortage of missing negatives, to its clearly not insufficient quality of liberated slavery from incomprehensibility. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/22 "2009-01-01T04:05:11Z")
Let’s see. I don’t use no double negatives myself can plausibly mean that I use double negatives. Really though concepts of grammar cannot be broken down as if governed by mathematical principles. If that’s the case then: I don’t never use no triple negatives = I never use triple negatives. And no, I don’t never _not_ use quadruple negatives might then indicate that I do (when the need arises) make use of quad negatives. I hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/23 "2009-01-01T04:23:28Z")
> [@Casserole](#): > > This one is weak… and I’m new… You ain’t got nuthin’. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/24 "2009-01-01T10:40:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is a good literary use of double-negatives. In statements of fact about the rain in Africa, it’s filler. I disagree. I take “not uncommon” to be less common than “common”. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/25 "2009-01-01T11:56:33Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > The rule against double negatives is not about examples such as those in the OP (which do follow the rules of algebra or symbolic logic), but more about non-standard forms such as “I ain’t going nowhere,” which in more standard English would be “I’m not going anywhere.” In that non-standard form, the double negation is intended to emphasise the negative, not to convert it into a positive form. The double negative rule, the rule against ending sentences with propositions, and other awkward rules, are not organic parts of English. Rather, they were imposed beginning around the [17th century](http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/wordfrom/negative/) out of a misguided attempt to create a “proper” grammar. Other languages use double negatives as emphasis, rather than as some weird canceling thing. Take [Spanish](http://spanish.about.com/library/weekly/aa061101a.htm), for instance: > [@](#): > > No le dijo nada a nadie. He didn’t say anything to anybody. A more literal translation would be, “He didn’t say nothing to nobody.” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/26 "2009-01-01T14:03:30Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > The double negative rule, the rule against ending sentences with propositions, and other awkward rules, are not organic parts of English. This goes double for the rule against splitting infinitives, imposed on English because it is impossible in Latin. > [@](#): > > Rather, they were imposed beginning around the [17th century](http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/wordfrom/negative/) out of a misguided attempt to create a “proper” grammar. Indeed. Shakespeare never had a problem with using double negatives in his works. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/27 "2009-01-01T16:30:11Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I disagree. I take “not uncommon” to be less common than “common”. That’s how I parse it as well. Litotes can also be used for intentional understatement to emphasis the opposite, not just some sort of condition in between two extremes (as in the “common” and “not uncommon” example.) For example, “that’s no small feat” does not mean it’s a feat, but not quite a “big feat.” It is a huge feat, but it’s a deliberate understatement through a common figure of speech. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/28 "2009-01-01T16:36:47Z")
And this is actually where have a question. Are all constructions like this litotes, or only the ones that use understatement in the negative as emphasis (rather than using the negative to specify a third category in between two extremes.) I’ve always thought litotes was rhetorical understatement, but it may cover all the cases above. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/29 "2009-01-02T17:48:06Z")
> [@Procyon](#): > > See, my opinion here is that even if a double negative isn’t equivalent to a positive, it’s still a little bit lazy. If you think this woman is plain, say she’s plain! There are enough good adjectives that you shouldn’t have to twist “attractive” around until it looks like something out of _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ just to express the idea of “plain.” The whole construction “not un-something” is starting to feel like a cliche whose time has come and gone. > [@Ganryu\_Kojiro](#): > > I disagree with this thought. If I were to say “not unattractive,” I would be saying that a woman isn’t conventionally beautiful, but I think she has her charms. I emphatically don’t mean that she’s plain. I wouldn’t be lazy at all using that construction because it is the best way to get my thought across. Obviously, YMMV. Here’s a perfect illustration: “Sarah Jessica Parker is not unattractive.” It conveys the point perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/30 "2009-01-02T18:09:26Z")
Even in the African rain example there are good occasions to use it. Say you have been staying in a part of a Africa where it has rained every day for the last month. You friend arrives and asks if the weather is always as lousy as it is that day. I would say, “It is not uncommon for it to rain in Africa,” but then again I am very sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/31 "2009-01-03T03:50:49Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s how I parse it as well. Litotes can also be used for intentional understatement to emphasis the opposite, not just some sort of condition in between two extremes (as in the “common” and “not uncommon” example.) For example, “that’s no small feat” does not mean it’s a feat, but not quite a “big feat.” It is a huge feat, but it’s a deliberate understatement through a common figure of speech. Depending on context, I can read the “It’s not uncommon for it to rain in Africa” to be a gentle way of correcting someone. “It _does too_ rain in Africa!” can be a bit harsh. “It’s not uncommon…” can also draw attention to the assumptions being made (e.g. that it _is_ uncommon for it to rain in Africa). I think judicious use of double negatives provides a richer and subtler texture of meaning to our language. ---
**Author:** ![outside\_artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@outside\_artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outside_artist)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/32 "2009-01-03T17:50:02Z")
Something interesting… I was watching the original production of 'The Pallisers", a PBS adaptation of Anthony Trollope’s epic novel about english almost-royalty set back in the early 1900s. Many of the characters used double negatives and the word ‘ain’t’ as if it weere the cool trendy thing to do. I found this most interesting since I thought that this use of grammar would have been considered way bad for people in the social class that the film presented. Was this a way to emulate Americans, or some other phenomenon? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/33 "2009-01-04T00:57:01Z")
> [@Casserole](#): > > As for this example, I suppose it does depend on the context of the sentence. I merely pulled it out of my head when writing, but what if the context showed that it either rained or didn’t rain? A black and white division is where I think double negatives have no place. “Not uncommon” is the most prolific of the double negatives I’ve seen to date, and it irritates me every time I’ve read it, as I assume they are speaking in a black/white example. I think we may just have to learn to live with your irritation. The construction you’re describing is quite often _useful_. It’s not pretentious - it’s _precise_. I agree that nuanced statements are not required when discussing black and white situations, but black and white situations are as rare as rocking horse shit in the real world, so it’s moot. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/34 "2009-01-04T23:12:19Z")
> [@outside\_artist](#): > > Something interesting… > I was watching the original production of 'The Pallisers", a PBS adaptation of Anthony Trollope’s epic novel about english almost-royalty set back in the early 1900s. Many of the characters used double negatives and the word ‘ain’t’ as if it weere the cool trendy thing to do. I found this most interesting since I thought that this use of grammar would have been considered way bad for people in the social class that the film presented. > Was this a way to emulate Americans, or some other phenomenon? “Ain’t” was a perfectly legit contraction of “I …am not”, but rural folks in America started using it for " He… is not" “isn’t” and “we… are not”/“aren’t”. So various busybodies started a campaign against it. Same with double-negatives, much as **sturmhauke** put it, but it didn’t catch on as a “no-no” until around the 20th century, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/35 "2009-01-04T23:22:56Z")
> [@Student\_Driver](#): > > Compare these two sentences: > > 1. She’s attractive. > > 2. She’s not unattractive. > > #2 is not equivalent to #1. This is a perfect example. Surely we can all agree that there are people who are neither attractive nor unattractive. Replacing “not unattractive” with “attractive” changes the meaning of the sentence. So that’s one legitimate use of a double negative. Another is to deny a negative statement. If I said “It’s unreasonable for you to start a pit thread on this silly topic,” and you wished to disagree with me, the most straightforward way to do so would be to say “No, it’s _not_ unreasonable.” To my ear, at least, saying “No it’s reasonable” in that case seems less direct, since rather than directly contradicting me you’re instead asserting the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/36 "2009-01-06T00:52:14Z")
The OP should desist from attacking the use of double negatives that are correct and in accord with the speaker’s meaning, and focus on that silly superfluous negation in phrases like “miss not having you around” or “don’t let something keep you from not doing a thing”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372/37 "2009-01-06T03:03:58Z")
Not that it can’t be apropos of the thread, but _Is you is or is you ain’t my baby? The way you’re actin’ lately makes me doubt Yous is still my baby-baby Seems my flame in your heart’s done gone out_ are lyrics for the ages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/legitimate-use-of-double-negatives/479372.md?page=1)