# Lego Battleship preview glamorizes war crime (or maybe Bricker is overthinking it) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 22, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044 "2012-07-22T15:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/41 "2012-07-23T10:09:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If they’re like me, that’s because they’re assuming that this tactic was their only chance. If the choice is between a bad reputation and not existing, I’d go with the former every time. This is why we have rules, even in war. So that one dopey Admiral, commanding one battle group, doesn’t “poison the well” for the upcoming global alien war. This is first contact with an alien presence, presumably there will be more, and now, there will be no surrender the next time our forces become overmatched. Thanks Admiral, you’ve potentially doomed tens of thousands of soldiers to their deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/42 "2012-07-23T11:21:47Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Thanks Admiral, you’ve potentially doomed tens of thousands of soldiers to their deaths. Potentially, it’s not just tens of thousands of soldiers: it could be the whole population of Earth, if the aliens decide on the basis of this episode that Earthlings are not to be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/43 "2012-07-23T11:42:24Z")
The whole perfidy thing is minor compared to what we did to the captured alien females.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/44 "2012-07-23T12:48:47Z")
'Tis _expressly_ against the law of arms! 'Tis as errant a piece of knavery, mark you now, as _can be offered!_ ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/45 "2012-07-23T13:33:49Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > The aliens are willing to accept surrender because you can’t eat Terrans who have been disintegrated. 😛 That’s my thought. If they’ve come all the way here to invade, their goal is to eat us, enslave us, lay their eggs in us, or some combination of the above. Making any other assumption is putting the entire human species at risk. So why do you hate all humans, **Bricker**? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/46 "2012-07-23T14:46:22Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Lesson number one when fighting aliens… there are no rules. Or fascists, or commies, etc. Dehumanizing the enemy in warfare is hardly anything new. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/47 "2012-07-23T15:02:43Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Or fascists, or commies, etc. Dehumanizing the enemy in warfare is hardly anything new. It’s hard to dehumanise them when they’re, you know, _not human_! ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/48 "2012-07-24T16:27:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s an ambush under perfidy. It violates the laws of war. Admittedly, the aliens are not signatories to Protocol I of the 1949 Geneva Convention, but the underlying rational is of course not merely Geneva based. Assume the rest of the aliens get word of this tactic: future combatants’ surrender will not be accepted or trusted. > > So am I crazy for thinking this is kind of an odd “heroic” message to be sending? It’s an odd heroic message to be sending. Completely odd. It’s classic cheating. Now let’s add this fact: The admiral is told there are no more soldiers left. This is _the_ last battle. We lose, the human race is dead/enslaved. No more fighting. Is the rule of law still supreme? (i.e., I’d win if I did this, but the law says I can’t do that to win). Do you allow morals to defeat you? Was the concept of rule of law even meant for this type of end of civilization scenario? Or is there some level where civilization falls so completely far apart that you’re _allowed_ to cheat to keep your civilization? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/49 "2012-07-24T17:05:05Z")
It would have been more acceptable to at least hint at such circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/50 "2012-07-24T18:16:12Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I recall some people kicking up a fuss that Obiwan does this exact same thing in the Clone Wars pilot “movie”(it was intended as a extra long first episode for the TV show but ended up getting released in theaters). > > Obiwan starts surrender negotiations knowing that any moment Anakin will take out the shield, he stalls until the shield comes down then takes the commander he was negotiating with hostage. The Rebels do it twice in Return of the Jedi. The droids and the ewoks and Han and Leia both fake surrender to storm troopers in two separate incidences. Then again, the Empire tortures and executes prisoners, so I think we can forgive the Rebels for fighting a bit dirty themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/51 "2012-07-24T18:29:05Z")
Commander Sheridan did something pretty similar in _Babylon 5_, during the Earth-Mimbari war: his ship was crippled, so he strapped an SOS beacon to a nuke and set it adrift. When the Mimbari flagship came looking for it, he detonated the nuke. In that case, however, Sheridan was the first (and last) human to successfully destroy a Mimbari ship, and the Mimbari had already established that they don’t take prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/52 "2012-07-24T18:34:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Commander Sheridan did something pretty similar in _Babylon 5_, during the Earth-Mimbari war: his ship was crippled, so he strapped an SOS beacon to a nuke and set it adrift. When the Mimbari flagship came looking for it, he detonated the nuke. Had he surrendered? It’s a fine point, but putting an SOS on a booby-trap is morally different than ‘surrendering,’ then ‘Gotcha Ya!’-ing. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/53 "2012-07-24T19:11:34Z")
Yep, you’re all over it! That scene doesn’t scene doesn’t convey any sense of honor. Pretty lame writing. So, just remember that next time the Lego navy tries to surrender to you. Run like hell! ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/54 "2012-07-24T19:37:42Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > So, just remember that next time the Lego navy tries to surrender to you. Run like hell! No – you take two steps: (1) Order their personnel to come to your warships as prisoners of war, without any weapons. (And shoot any with any kind of weapon, because carrying a weapon is inconsistent with surrender.) (2) Once they tell you that they are all under your control as prisoners of war, either take command of their warships or scuttle their warships – whichever is more convenient to you. The object would be to make sure they have no weapons of any kind left under their control. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044/55 "2012-07-26T16:44:20Z")
Warning: after typing this out, I’ve realized that what follows is NOT about a video about toys. My father fought in World War 2 (US 69th Infantry Division) against the Germans. His war stories included a “reversed” version of the sort of perfidy depicted in this video. Instead of “Surrender, then blast the foe by surprise while he is accepting your surrender,” it was “Blast the foe by surprise, then immediately throw your hands up and surrender before they can shoot back.” As Germany crumbled in 1945, his division began to encounter teenage fighters – Hitler Youth who were akin to “child soldiers,” ruthlessly indoctrinated with hate and violence. These boys would pop up with a _[Panzerfaust](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust)_ (the WWII analog of the now-ubiquitous RPG rocket grenade), or a [_Schmeisser_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP40) submachine gun, and let fly at the advancing American infantry. Having shot their bolt (the _Schmeisser_ can empty its entire magazine in less than four seconds, the Panzerfaust was a one-shot weapon) and perhaps killed or wounded some Americans, these kids/monsters would instantly throw their hands up and claim surrender, trying to do so before the surprised Americans could orient and return fire. But persuading the enemy to accept one’s surrender is notoriously the most dangerous transaction on the battlefield, even in cases without this combination of treachery and arrogant presumption. My Dad went on to emphasize, “We _always_ shot those guys down. ALWAYS.” He said it savagely, confrontationally, knowing it would shock most listeners, daring us to argue with this slur on the “Good War” theme. His face would flush and he would go rigid. We could _see_ how much it tortured him, 50 years later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lego-battleship-preview-glamorizes-war-crime-or-maybe-bricker-is-overthinking-it/629044.md?page=2)