# Leif Erickson Day **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 19, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826 "2002-07-19T16:05:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/1 "2002-07-19T16:05:50Z")
This was part of teh theme of a Spongebob episode. Who was he? And what day **is** Leif Erickson day? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/2 "2002-07-19T16:25:01Z")
Leif is purportedly the first European to “really” discover America. (We have, indeed, found a Viking settlement at L’Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland.) However, the Viking colonization didn’t last and did not lead to a major migration across the Atlantic. There were occasional efforts at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th centuries to get more recognition for our good, Germanic, pale-skinned, Northern European discoverer so as to minimize the contributions of those swarthy, Latin (Italian and Spanish–and Catholic) explorers who started coming in 1492.\* 'Leif Erickson Day" is pretty much a joke that resulted. (Now that we are all supposed to revile Columbus for his genocidal activities, someone _might_ want to bring Leif back, again, but it should be noted that the original Viking explorers came across a camp of sleeping natives and massacred them “just because” so no Europeans actually come looking good, on that score.) - Please do not hasten to point out various errors with the portraits of the explorers–I am only indicating the motives and expressions that the Viking supporters have voiced. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/3 "2002-07-19T17:20:59Z")
If you google “Leif Eri **k** son Day” you get hits like this [White PR](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/10/20011009-10.html) for LED 2001 (Oct. 9). The date appears to be somewhat arbitrary, trying to come just before C\*\*\*\*\*\*s day. Note that Leif was not the first Norseman to spot Vinland. Some sources say he heard about the lands west of Greenland from Bjarni Hergelfson. Leif was possibly the first Norseman to attempt to settle in North America. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/4 "2002-07-19T20:07:44Z")
So youre saying its April 31st? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/5 "2002-07-19T21:27:48Z")
No, no, no… **Everyone** knows that the first Europeans to reach the Americas were St. Brendan the Navigator, and his crew. Well, everyone Irish knows, at least. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/6 "2002-07-20T01:48:03Z")
_Eeek! A hijack, or at least a hijink._ During the time Leif Erikson was traveling to North America, his home town had a census. After some head-scratching, the enumerators decided not to count the absent explorer. When Erikson’s mom, Mrs. Erik, heard about it, she was outraged. She stormed into the census office, screaming, “Haff you taken Leif off your census?!!”😃 ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/7 "2002-07-20T06:37:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Now that we are all supposed to revile Columbus for his genocidal activities, someone might want to bring Leif back, again, but it should be noted that the original Viking explorers came across a camp of sleeping natives and massacred them “just because” so no Europeans actually come looking good, on that score. Does anyone have a cite for this? I have read that there were indeed conflicts between the Vikings and the Indians, but I have never heard of this before. In any case, I would say that for me, at least, the glorification of Leif Eiriksson is about Scandinavian pride, not about a wish to denigrate any other ethnic group. The point of it is remembering the Vikings’ dedication to exploring and trade, not to mention their fierce independence. And yes, the Viking settlements didn’t lead to large-scale migration, but that was a result of the European climate of the time (technologically, politically, and economically), and it doesn’t diminish Leif’s achievement. ---
**Author:** ![Iteki\_actually](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@Iteki\_actually](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki_actually)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/8 "2002-07-20T12:03:43Z")
I am with Chronos on this, by the time Leif got to north america St Brenden had the kettle on and was offering him a cup of tea. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/9 "2002-07-20T13:40:16Z")
Also fans of the classic TV series “The High Chapparal” have been clamoring for a “Leif Erickson Day” for years.😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/10 "2002-07-20T14:36:06Z")
> [@](#): > > In any case, I would say that for me, at least, the glorification of Leif Eiriksson is about Scandinavian pride, not about a wish to denigrate any other ethnic group. I’m sure that in Minnesota and other Scandinavian immigrant enclaves, they are more interested in admiring one of their own. However, there was, indeed, a general movement 100 years ago to try to show that the Northern Europeans did it “first.” It was hardly a major movement in historiography or a serious attempt at educational “reform,” but it did occur. [The First Attack on the Skraelings (from the Saga of Eric the Red)](http://www.american.edu/TED/ice/vineland.htm) provides a translation of the actual records of the Vikings. My memory is that this encounter with the _skraelings_ was the first after the Vikings had left Greenland, although I do not have a chronologically ordered record of their North American exploration. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/11 "2002-07-20T14:38:04Z")
Sorry, the quoted section disappeared from my post: > [@](#): > > "They then returned to the ship, and discovered on the sands, in beyond the headland, three mounds: they went up to these, and saw that they were three skin canoes with three men under each. They thereupon divided their party, and succeeded in seizing all of the men but one, who escaped with his canoe. They killed the eight men, and then ascended the headland again, and looked about them, and discovered within the firth certain hillocks, which they concluded must be habitations. " ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/12 "2002-07-20T15:24:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Note that Leif was not the first Norseman to spot Vinland. Some sources say he heard about the lands west of Greenland from Bjarni Hergelfson. Leif was possibly the first Norseman to attempt to settle in North America. There are conflicting reports. _Grænlendinga saga_ (“The Saga of the Greenlanders”) says Bjarni Herjolfsson was blown off course and sighted Vinland (but never tried to land there). Later Leif went looking for Vinland and explored it. _Eiríks saga rauða_ (“Erik the Red’s Saga”) makes no mention of Bjarni and says that it was Leif who was blown off course. Both sagas agree that Leif and the men and women who were travelling with him that were the first Scandinavians to actually set foot in Vinland. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/13 "2002-07-20T16:11:07Z")
Tom, that page says the the passage you quote is from the Saga of the Erik the Red, but it is actually from the Saga of the Greenlanders. There is a similar passage in the other, but the chronology is all different. (Note that Leif himself was not involved in the incident, he was already back home in Greenland by this time in both versions). In the Saga of the Greenlanders, Leif’s brother Thorvald does indeed slaughter eight skraelings for no apparent reason in the first-ever Norse-skraeling meeting. This turns out to be a mistake, since the one who got away lead a force of skraelings back and Thorvald was killed by an arrow. However, in Erik the Red’s Saga, it was Leif’s brother-in-law Thorfinn Karlsefni who kills five skraelings in circumstances so similar that it is believed the two stories have an identical origin. But in this version, it is not the first meeting between the Norse and the skraelings. First, they met to trade, but the skraelings were frightened away by Karlsefni’s bull. Three weeks later the skraelings returned and attacked the Norse, killing two of them. The Norse decided to leave, and on their way back came across five skraelings on the beach, whom they killed. The saga says that Karlsefni believed these five to be outlaws (presumably meaning they had been cast out under skraeling law). Under Iceland/Greenland law, it was perfectly acceptable to kill outlaws, but I can’t imagine a good reason Karlsefni would make such an assumption. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/14 "2002-07-20T16:53:04Z")
Thanks for the update. I’ve read quite a few accounts of individual journeys, but I have not ever sat down and read a coherent overview, so I’m not always clear on errors that might pop up in other people’s descriptions. The first time I heard of the attack on the _skraelings_ was in a documentary that attempted to re-create the earliest voyage. That film proposed that the attack was the first contact. Certainly, if the event is truly the one in which Thorvald was killed, (a point I _should_ have recognized when I went looking for an on-line citation), it could not have been the first contact, as Thorvald’s journey was later than Lief’s and Lief _had_ encountered natives. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/15 "2002-07-20T16:55:51Z")
sheeesh! I keep losing sections of posts. My last sentence should have indicated that one version I have read of Lief’s journey had him meeting with natives–although I am not clear that that version was accurate, either. (One more section of history to add to my reading list.) ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/16 "2002-07-20T17:36:20Z")
There is no mention in the two sagas that Leif himself ever encountered skraelings. Leif gets a lot of credit for exploring Vinland, but his contribution was minimal. According to Erik the Red’s Saga, he stayed in Vinland only briefly and never returned. According to the Saga of the Greenlanders, he stayed just one winter and never returned. Both sagas give most of the credit for exploring Vinland to Leif’s extended family in one or more subsequent voyages: His brother (Thorvald), his brother Thorstein’s widow (Gudrid) and her third husband (Thorfinn Karlsefni) and his [possibly murderous] sister (Freydis) and her husband (Thorvard). Penguin Books published a book called _The Sagas of the Icelanders_ that includes translations of both sagas (and many others that are not about Vinland) and a handy table that compares and contrasts the two versions. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/17 "2002-07-20T17:44:57Z")
I feel silly; I’d thought it was a legitimate day. So…what day do those folks think he really did discover us? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/18 "2002-07-20T20:52:26Z")
leif eriksen day is on oct 9th. we celebrate it every year in philly. we gather around the statue, sail a home made viking boat on the river, and usually freeze our tushies placing a wreath at the statue. ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/19 "2002-07-21T06:17:06Z")
Thanks for the link, tomndebb. I’m aware that part of the 19th-century movement to recognize the Vikings’ explorations in America was of a rather racist persuasion. The whole thing could probably be considered a result of the Romantic movements to recognize old folklore and history, which also led to the music of Wagner, Victorian interest in King Arthur, etc. And some of it was racist, which isn’t surprising, given the atmosphere of the time. But I don’t think the beliefs of a few racist idiots, especially from more than a century ago, should detract from the legitimate ethnic pride of many Scandinavians, any more than Hitler and his ilk should detract from legitimate German ethnic pride, or Mussolini should cast an unfavorable light on Italians who are proud of the glory of the Roman Empire, or violent or racist Black Panthers should reflect on legitimate, non-racist black pride. Yes, there have been racist elements in every cultural pride movement, but I think that’s just an unfortunate consequence of human nature that needs to be overcome so people can share their culture with others. But maybe some of that is more GD territory. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826/20 "2002-07-21T15:02:16Z")
Sorry. I did not intend to suggest that Scandinavians should be prohibited from celebrating their culture. I had not actually heard that there _was_ a real [Leif Erikson Day](http://www.libertynet.org/~viking/histback.shtml), and figured (based on the history of recent TV to lampoon twits) that the _Spongebob_ reference was to the earlier groups. (It would be interesting to see where the Congressional resolution originated, but even a connection to the earlier groups would not invalidate the celebration of the Viking explorations.) I note on that site that the October 9 date was chosen because it was the arrival date (1825) of the first Norwegian immigrant ship. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leif-erickson-day/119826.md?page=2)