# lekatt's recent hijacks (removed from original threads) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686 "2008-03-29T02:00:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/181 "2008-04-19T16:14:24Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] He can believe anything he wants, but when he confuses belief with fact, it s not wrong to call hm on it. [/QUOTE] Well if he can believe any thing he wants, and we all know what he believes can not be proven or disproven it stands to reason that what he believes is not fact. It doesn’t make it untrue, only that you believe it to be so. Perhaps you and the other mods and administrators should get together and change the forum rules, making the discussion of things that are not facts, or that can’t be proven, against the rules. I see **Tom** has made a valid point about these intrusions disrupting existing discussions, and I would hope that **lekatt** might take this into consideration. On the other hand I see threads hijacked every day, in every forum, and not dealt with in the same way it is here. Perhaps debating opinion just shouldn’t be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/182 "2008-04-19T16:15:00Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I see, I am to defend against a link that hasn’t been provided. It has been provided multiple times, as you well know. [QUOTE=DocCathode] I provided this [link](http://aleroy.com/Ndee.htm) to your telling of your NDE. [/quote] In this link, in your own words, you had a dream during a self-diagnosed “heart attack”. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/183 "2008-04-19T16:16:53Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] t has been provided multiple times, as you well know. In this link, in your own words, you had a dream during a self-diagnosed “heart attack”. [/QUOTE] Please point out those words to me, I have read that account many times and didn’t see that anywhere in it. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/184 "2008-04-19T16:19:36Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] He chastises the rest of us for having closed minds, and yet he refuses himself to consider alternatives to what he experienced. He knows it all, of course, and yet we do not. If we do not accept his claim, we are wrong. [/QUOTE] It seems that Guin also sees you as as condescending. So do I. Would you like me to start a poll about it? **Omegaman** , **Lekatt** is entitled to his opinion. But the many factual claims he makes are subject to proof- Pam Reynolds, Moody, Seth, etc. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/185 "2008-04-19T16:19:44Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] In this link, in your own words, you had a dream during a self-diagnosed “heart attack”. [/QUOTE] I know, I know, I’m not really going to participate in this thread anymore… but I before I go, one last question: I’m not seeing any reference to a heart attack in the link, although I do see that those who’ve described it as a dream about a NDE, rather than an NDE, are 100% accurate. Is there another link to the self-diagnosed heart attack claim? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/186 "2008-04-19T16:32:08Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Well if he can believe any thing he wants, and we all know what he believes can not be proven or disproven it stands to reason that what he believes is not fact. It doesn’t make it untrue, only that you believe it to be so. Perhaps you and the other mods and administrators should get together and change the forum rules, making the discussion of things that are not facts, or that can’t be proven, against the rules. I see **Tom** has made a valid point about these intrusions disrupting existing discussions, and I would hope that **lekatt** might take this into consideration. On the other hand I see threads hijacked every day, in every forum, and not dealt with in the same way it is here. Perhaps debating opinion just shouldn’t be allowed. [/QUOTE] For the last time, we are not talking about his opinions or beliefs, we are talking about things he claims are _facts_, like the following: > [@lekatt](#): > > Also there have been experimental surgeries where the blood has been drained from the patients head for a number of minutes and the patient could still see the whole operation. He claims that this has happened, I’ve ask for a cite for this _factual_ claim multiple times, and he has ignored my requests. He claims that he has had an NDE, but since it’s an acronym for Near Death Experience, it is a _requirement_ that one have said Experience while one is Near Death for it to qualify as a Near Death Experience. Though he is not trained as a physician, he somehow determined(without confirmation from trained medical personnel) that he had had a heart attack, so that _must_ mean that the “mystical” experience he had _must_ have been an NDE. I don’t know about you, but if I thought that I had had a heart attack, I would dial 911 asap. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/187 "2008-04-19T16:37:41Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] **Lekatt** is entitled to his opinion. But the many factual claims he makes are subject to proof- Pam Reynolds, Moody, Seth, etc. [/QUOTE] Well if **Czarcasm** is going to point out that his opinion is not a fact, and therefore subject to scrutiny, I’m thinking we should just go ahead and take it to the pit. You can open a poll in IMHO about whether he is condesending, although as **Tom** is the mod in this forum and already judged him to be so, I don’t think you will need to. I do think that I should open a pit thread and see if we can get **tubadiva** and **Ed Zotti** to seriously consider changing the rules of this forum. Perhaps then we can get some other opinions from those not involved in this discussion, to see where the real problem lies. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/188 "2008-04-19T17:06:57Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Well if **Czarcasm** is going to point out that his opinion is not a fact, and therefore subject to scrutiny, I’m thinking we should just go ahead and take it to the pit. [/quote] What part of the explanations provided have you missed? **lekatt** has made claims that evolution has never been estasblished as fact, that “science” has “proven” that NDEs and OBEs occur, that “scientists” are trying to “disprove” the spiritual, and other false claims. His opinions regarding those claims are not subject to scrutiny, but when he posts one of those beliefs as a fact from which he then draws other conclusions, he is out of line. When he steadfastly refuses to provide any evidence for his clams of (purported) fact, then he is out of line in this Forum. We do not need a poll regarding those events. They have occurred in this very thread (and are the reason this thread exists as a separate entity). I have no idea what rule you think we should change. This Forum is rife with opinions. We even tolerate different posters steadfastly expressing their opinions without providing support for them.\* What has become an irritant to the point requiring action has been **lekatt** ’s multiple year engagement in the identical disruptive behavior. Since it is not against the rules to express opinions (even silly opinions unsupported by facts) **lekatt** has not actually broken any rules, so the staff has taken no action against him. Since his behavior is disruptive, however, this thread was created to prevent other threads being destroyed. The only Mod directive that has been given in this thread has been that he refrain from insulting conduct (which is against the rules, anyway) with explicit examples of the proscribed comments. And even there, it was not the occasional throwaway line (in which many, if not most, posters indulge themselves), but a persistent pattern of behavior that drew Moderator action. - We have the usual posters who claim that “God demands x,” “no god exists,” “GWB is the best/worst president EVAR,” “Clinton was/was not impeached for a blo9w job,” “the U.S. sucks,” “USA! USA! No. 1!” and so on, but their posts tend to not disrupt threads because they are so clearly expressing beliefs, and not interrupting discussion with false claims regarding facts, that the other posters feel no compulsion to respond. (I would prefer that **lekatt** ’s “contributions” were simply ignored, as well. It would make my job as a Mod much easier. However, since he insists that he is posting “facts” and there is always a concern among some posters that a new or uninformerd poster will not recognize his claims as merely personal beliefs, his interruptions garner a lot of responses.) [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/189 "2008-04-19T17:20:47Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] This is the link to your very own site, where you self-diagnose a heart attack after having a dream. This is the second time _in just this thread_ that you have asked for, then ignored, a link that you requested. Either respond, or drop your claim. [/QUOTE] But, I did not see one mention of a heart attack on that page. Hmmm… (I guess I’m a bit peeved right now-my Gramma’s in the hospital, recuperating after a slight heart attack. Too bad it wasn’t just a bad dream for her.) ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/190 "2008-04-19T17:28:15Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] What part of the explanations provided have you missed? **lekatt** has made claims that evolution has never been estasblished as fact, that “science” has “proven” that NDEs and OBEs occur, that “scientists” are trying to “disprove” the spiritual, and other false claims. His opinions regarding those claims are not subject to scrutiny, but when he posts one of those beliefs as a fact from which he then draws other conclusions, he is out of line. When he steadfastly refuses to provide any evidence for his clams of (purported) fact, then he is out of line in this Forum. We do not need a poll regarding those events. They have occurred in this very thread (and are the reason this thread exists as a separate entity). I have no idea what rule you think we should change. This Forum is rife with opinions. We even tolerate different posters steadfastly expressing their opinions without providing support for them.\* What has become an irritant to the point requiring action has been **lekatt** ’s multiple year engagement in the identical disruptive behavior. Since it is not against the rules to express opinions (even silly opinions unsupported by facts) **lekatt** has not actually broken any rules, so the staff has taken no action against him. Since his behavior is disruptive, however, this thread was created to prevent other threads being destroyed. The only Mod directive that has been given in this thread has been that he refrain from insulting conduct (which is against the rules, anyway) with explicit examples of the proscribed comments. And even there, it was not the occasional throwaway line (in which many, if not most, posters indulge themselves), but a persistent pattern of behavior that drew Moderator action. - We have the usual posters who claim that “God demands x,” “no god exists,” “GWB is the best/worst president EVAR,” “Clinton was/was not impeached for a blo9w job,” “the U.S. sucks,” “USA! USA! No. 1!” and so on, but their posts tend to not disrupt threads because they are so clearly expressing beliefs, and not interrupting discussion with false claims regarding facts, that the other posters feel no compulsion to respond. (I would prefer that **lekatt** ’s “contributions” were simply ignored, as well. It would make my job as a Mod much easier. However, since he insists that he is posting “facts” and there is always a concern among some posters that a new or uninformerd poster will not recognize his claims as merely personal beliefs, his interruptions garner a lot of responses.) [/Modding] [/QUOTE] I think perhaps the rule about witnessing should be revoked. His talking about NDE, claiming it to be a fact, amounts to the same thing as far as I can tell. And you and others treat it in the same fashion as you do to claims of faith, belief in God or gods etc. It makes no difference to me one way or the other. We all know you have the final say and your determinations to the adherance to any rules in this forum are considered to be the final word. Fine by me. I think the constant discussion of **lekatt** and his opinions both here and in the pit where others trash both him and his opinions at will, shoud cease as well. I just don’t see any other way that that goal will be accomplished other than by banning him or changing the rules of this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/191 "2008-04-19T17:28:21Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] But, I did not see one mention of a heart attack on that page. Hmmm… (I guess I’m a bit peeved right now-my Gramma’s in the hospital, recuperating after a slight heart attack. Too bad it wasn’t just a bad dream for her.) [/QUOTE] [Here is another version of “The **lekatt** Story”, in his own words,](http://www.aleroy.com/Person.htm) complete with miracle cure. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/192 "2008-04-19T17:33:58Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] (I guess I’m a bit peeved right now-my Gramma’s in the hospital, recuperating after a slight heart attack. Too bad it wasn’t just a bad dream for her.) [/QUOTE] I’m sorry to hear of you grandmothers condition. I hope that she is up and feeling well soon. I don’t, however, understand your comment about **lekatt** s experience as being a dream. That seems a bit on the distasteful side to me. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/193 "2008-04-19T17:38:08Z")
**OmegaMan** , **Lekatt** has claimed he had a heart attack the night of his NDE. However, he has no proof that he had a heart attack. He was not connected to any monitoring equipment at the time. No medical professional was consulted to confirm the heart attack. He has no proof he had a heart attack. Grammastasia, OTOH, has confirmation by trained medical personnel that she had a heart attack. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/194 "2008-04-19T18:01:18Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] [Here is another version of “The **lekatt** Story”, in his own words,](http://www.aleroy.com/Person.htm) complete with miracle cure. [/QUOTE] But still no mention of a heart attack. Where was such a claim made? ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/195 "2008-04-19T18:06:28Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] **OmegaMan** , **Lekatt** has claimed he had a heart attack the night of his NDE. However, he has no proof that he had a heart attack. He was not connected to any monitoring equipment at the time. No medical professional was consulted to confirm the heart attack. He has no proof he had a heart attack. Grammastasia, OTOH, has confirmation by trained medical personnel that she had a heart attack. [/QUOTE] Well I wasn’t refering to the heart attack itself . Her words indicate she was refering to the entire experience. I’m starting to wonder if you consider me to be a dullard or someone of that nature. If you feel the need to explain something so plain what other conclusion do you expect me to make from your statements? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/196 "2008-04-19T18:09:02Z")
My search is weak today. But **Lekatt** has made posts to the SDMB claiming the heart attack. **Lekatt** , do you still claim that you had a near fatal heart attack the night of your NDE? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/197 "2008-04-19T18:13:26Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] My search is weak today. But **Lekatt** has made posts to the SDMB claiming the heart attack. **Lekatt** , do you still claim that you had a near fatal heart attack the night of your NDE? [/QUOTE] And if it _wasn’t_ a heart attack(though numerous mentions by you of having heart disease and a previous heart attack in other accounts might lead one to assume), what was it exactly you were dying of that night, and who confirmed your self-diagnosis? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/198 "2008-04-19T18:18:01Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] My search is weak today. But **Lekatt** has made posts to the SDMB claiming the heart attack. [/quote] Ah, ok. Your search is probably “weak” because the search function seems to have been neutered. I don’t think it scans past a year or so back, if that. I would say, however, that it behoves folks who are actually getting into the nitty gritty of this argument to be absolutely scrupulous with their claims. It is very bad form to cite a document, especially one that’s just a few paragraphs, and say that someone makes claims of a heart attack in it, when they do not. But that’s neither here nor there, and now I really am done with this thread. Time to go take a walk and enjoy a picnic lunch on such a beautiful day. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/199 "2008-04-19T18:21:46Z")
From his own website, in his own words: > [@lekatt](#): > > ``` > I had a bad day. I was depressed about my health, business and everything else that came to mind so I went to bed early, thinking the sleep would help me forget. I was wrong. > > About 2:00 a.m. I awoke feeling very strange. I couldn't see anything, but felt an energy or electric-like current running all through me. Also felt someone close to my right shoulder. I thought this was my wife, but soon determined the bed, with my wife in it, was far below me, and to my left. Wanting to find out who this presence was at my shoulder I tried to turn around. A voice said: "Please go back to sleep." It was a male voice that seemed to originate within my thoughts or mind. > > ``` He went to bed with a troubled mind. He thought he had awoken in the middle of the night, and a mysterious voice tells hm to go back to sleep. He eventually does, and the “vision” continues. No NDE. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/200 "2008-04-19T18:28:01Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Well I wasn’t refering to the heart attack itself . Her words indicate she was refering to the entire experience. I’m starting to wonder if you consider me to be a dullard or someone of that nature. [/QUOTE] I don’t consider you a dullard. I simply misunderstood you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686.md?page=11)