# lekatt's recent hijacks (removed from original threads) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686 "2008-03-29T02:00:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/461 "2008-04-26T20:30:34Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] BTW, could we have a cite for that? I would like to know where that quote came from. [/QUOTE] It is another anonymous contribution to [**lekatt** ’s web site](http://aleroy.com/board240.htm). (As a mildly interesting personal experience, it is OK. Of course, I see no place on the essay where he claims an OBE and no place where he claims to have proof that OBEs are possible. He simply had an experience at a traumatic event in his life from which he took away a greater openness to the spiritual realm. I certainly have no problem with that–although I note that it has absolutely nothing to do with “proving” or providing evidence that the consciousness possesses awareness separate from the body–which is the point for which this thread was created.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/462 "2008-04-26T22:26:57Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I thought you might be different. As least you acknowledged a science study when you saw it. Really does not make any difference does it. What we think or say. Reality is what it is, no one can change that any. We can only observe it. [/quote] Of course I acknowledged a scientific study when I saw it. I believe everyone here will agree that the study linked to by **Qadgop** is a scientific study. And of course reality is what it is; that’s so obvious that it doesn’t need to be said, I would think. What we’re doing is debating what it is. > [@](#): > > I will stick with what I know to the true, and you can do the same. I had hoped it would be possible to at least discuss the events here. Too many people to do that. Too much negativity. We will find out in the end. The difference is that I am not sticking with what I “know” to be true. I don’t know what is true. I know what I believe I have observed, and I draw more or less tentative conclusions from that. I acknowledge my fallibility and the possibility that I have drawn mistaken conclusions from my observations. For example, I observe that, after this my fifth request, you have STILL refused to follow through on your offer to quote scientific studies (with the aforementioned qualifications; I won’t repeat them in this request) that support your viewpoint. That is an observation. My conclusion, that you are unable to do so, is tentative; I do not KNOW that it is true, and I am open to having my mind changed. In that sense, you were right: I AM different from someone else in this thread. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/463 "2008-04-26T23:22:01Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Of course I acknowledged a scientific study when I saw it. I believe everyone here will agree that the study linked to by **Qadgop** is a scientific study. And of course reality is what it is; that’s so obvious that it doesn’t need to be said, I would think. What we’re doing is debating what it is. The difference is that I am not sticking with what I “know” to be true. I don’t know what is true. I know what I believe I have observed, and I draw more or less tentative conclusions from that. I acknowledge my fallibility and the possibility that I have drawn mistaken conclusions from my observations. For example, I observe that, after this my fifth request, you have STILL refused to follow through on your offer to quote scientific studies (with the aforementioned qualifications; I won’t repeat them in this request) that support your viewpoint. That is an observation. My conclusion, that you are unable to do so, is tentative; I do not KNOW that it is true, and I am open to having my mind changed. In that sense, you were right: I AM different from someone else in this thread. Daniel [/QUOTE] I do appreciate your seriousness, but I don’t think you would ever find a personal experience as proof of anything, no matter how many there are. I believe personal experiences are valid, especially when in such large numbers and similarities. I can show more studies as the earlier one, but really don’t want to waste the time trying to defend them. If you are serious you can read the material available on the internet. Dr. Bruce Grayson of the University of Virginia has been collecting verified near death experiences for a long time, you might start there. Just a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/464 "2008-04-26T23:26:18Z")
Here we have a drug induced near death experience that can be called real, in the opinion of researchers. Just more intertainment for some, learning for others. > [@](#): > > I have had a NDE once before. I did not know it at the time. But a few years later I saw a show on them and could not believe what I was seeing. I had thought that I had a dream. But if it was a dream then it was a lot like a NDE. > I am ashamed of how I became in the predicement that I was in. I had done to much cocaine and died for a second or two. But in that second I found my self looking down at myself, then I was in a tunnel of light and it was a very warm and loving light. I didn’t want to leave, but a voice said to me from somewhere, in a kind of impatient and disappointed in me, kind of voice, “Well are you going to live, or are you going to die?” > > At the time, I had a son who was about 5. When I thought of him SWOOSH! back into my body I went. It was the most rememorable experience I have ever had. I remember it today like it had only happened yesterday and it’s been at least 15 years. > > I have done a lot of reading on the subject since I realized what it was that I had experienced. I have read all of your books (speaking of Melvin Morse). Children of the Light was a very good one, it really touched me and enlightened me on some things. > > I know you don’t consider an overdose as a real NDE, but I think that maybe you should. Mine had as many simularities as other people who had accidental deaths, although mine was accidental too. It just came at a time when I was really questioning in my mind if there was really a god or not. It definitely cleared that question right up. I believe that we go to a higher plane when we die and I make sure that my kids believe that too. > > signed, TH ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/465 "2008-04-26T23:31:43Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I do appreciate your seriousness, but I don’t think you would ever find a personal experience as proof of anything, no matter how many there are. [/quote] I would find it a proof that someone had a given experience. As I said, I have no doubt that NDEs exist. I would NOT accept a personal experience as proof of something beyond the experience–e.g., that ghosts exist, or that members of a certain nationality are lazy or rude, or that life exists after death. Can you understand that distinction? If you believe my reasoning is wrong, I would turn it around on you: do you accept people’s conclusions about, say, other ethnicities, based on their experiences with members of those ethnicities? Or I could ask another question. I play lots of geeky games. I play with a lot of very rational people. These people become convinced that certain dice are “lucky” or “unlucky”, based on their experiences with those dice. Which is likelier: that certain hard-plastic polyhedra are lucky, or that people are poor intuitive statisticians? > [@](#): > > I can show more studies as the earlier one, but really don’t want to waste the time trying to defend them. I am not asking you to do so. I am asking you to follow through on, or retract, your claim that you can quote from this study (or one other one) passages of peer-reviewed research that support your claim that people experiencing NDEs can perceive certain things in a nonphysical fashion. I would ask you not to insult either of us by claiming that you won’t “waste the time” to do so. You said you could, you said you would. Please keep your word, or else retract your claim. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/466 "2008-04-26T23:41:19Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Here we have a drug induced near death experience that can be called real, in the opinion of researchers. Just more intertainment for some, learning for others. [/QUOTE] I am pleading, **lekatt** -do not post any more anonymous anecdotes. They cannot be verified, so they are _totally useless_ as evidence. I’m sure that you can provide hundreds of them, just as I’m sure that there are thousands of people, out of the billions on this planet, that appreciate the chance to tell tales to people such as yourself knowing that they will be believed sight-unseen no matter how unlikely their story is. It brings excitement to their ordinary lives and makes them feel they are “special”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/467 "2008-04-26T23:47:33Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] I am pleading, **lekatt** -do not post any more anonymous anecdotes. They cannot be verified, so they are _totally useless_ as evidence. I’m sure that you can provide hundreds of them, just as I’m sure that there are thousands of people, out of the billions on this planet, that appreciate the chance to tell tales to people such as yourself knowing that they will be believed sight-unseen no matter how unlikely their story is. It brings excitement to their ordinary lives and makes them feel they are “special”. [/QUOTE] Or else they’re just trolling, seeing how outrageous they can get before you’ll stop posting them. And please, for the love of GOD, would you just answer my questions about the mentally ill. Or do you not believe it exists? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/468 "2008-04-27T01:10:34Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I do appreciate your seriousness, but I don’t think you would ever find a personal experience as proof of anything, no matter how many there are. I believe personal experiences are valid, especially when in such large numbers and similarities. [/quote] I can bring up hundreds/thousands of personal experiences about people who have been anally violated by aliens. Do you think that they truly were violated by aliens? Since there are multiple personal experiences by many people, are you saying that aliens exist and kidnap people to do anal probes? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/469 "2008-04-27T02:14:05Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] I can bring up hundreds/thousands of personal experiences about people who have been anally violated by aliens. Do you think that they truly were violated by aliens? Since there are multiple personal experiences by many people, are you saying that aliens exist and kidnap people to do anal probes? [/QUOTE] Um, did you see post #326? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/470 "2008-04-27T03:04:15Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] I would find it a proof that someone had a given experience. As I said, I have no doubt that NDEs exist. I would NOT accept a personal experience as proof of something beyond the experience–e.g., that ghosts exist, or that members of a certain nationality are lazy or rude, or that life exists after death. Can you understand that distinction? If you believe my reasoning is wrong, I would turn it around on you: do you accept people’s conclusions about, say, other ethnicities, based on their experiences with members of those ethnicities? Or I could ask another question. I play lots of geeky games. I play with a lot of very rational people. These people become convinced that certain dice are “lucky” or “unlucky”, based on their experiences with those dice. Which is likelier: that certain hard-plastic polyhedra are lucky, or that people are poor intuitive statisticians? I am not asking you to do so. I am asking you to follow through on, or retract, your claim that you can quote from this study (or one other one) passages of peer-reviewed research that support your claim that people experiencing NDEs can perceive certain things in a nonphysical fashion. I would ask you not to insult either of us by claiming that you won’t “waste the time” to do so. You said you could, you said you would. Please keep your word, or else retract your claim. Daniel [/QUOTE] I have done so and it was ignored. Everything I say is ignored. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/471 "2008-04-27T03:46:50Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Um, did you see post #326? [/QUOTE] Nope. And now that I read that post, I give up. My life has to be worth more than this. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/472 "2008-04-27T03:48:36Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I have done so and it was ignored. Everything I say is ignored. [/QUOTE] Obviously, 400+ posts later, people aren’t ignoring you. They’re just infuriated that you don’t know the difference between fact and fiction. Or, at least the ability to provide facts, and separate them from fiction. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/473 "2008-04-27T04:03:42Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] If that were taken to a court of law, the physicians could provide all you ask. Why is it so hard to comprehend. We are spiritual people, always have been. Nothing wrong with that, actually it is a good thing. Don’t have to reach, and reach to find something wrong. The fault lies in believing we are created by our brains. The evidence lies in the opposite direction and that is true whether you accept it or not. [/QUOTE] That’s the thing, though, **lekatt**. I’m asking for that evidence now. Or else I’ll dismiss the story as what it is: a story. I, for instance, heard a story about a gentleman who had an OBE (I don’t actually know whether this gentleman was near death or not). This experience took place during one or several nights. The account initially seems to speak about three nights, but on his return the gentleman notices only one night had passed. During one of this perceived nights, the gentleman is taken to his past and shown several events where he chose to neglect his loved one. The second night shows him all the current event he’s missing because of his bad attitude. The third night shows him where he’s headed if he doesn’t amend his ways. The story concludes with him miraculously surviving the night and changing his evil ways. Now: I don’t think this story was veridical. I can’t prove it, of course, but it still is a very nice and edifying story. Would you believe a story of this nature without questioning it? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/474 "2008-04-27T04:08:31Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] That’s the thing, though, **lekatt**. I’m asking for that evidence now. Or else I’ll dismiss the story as what it is: a story. I, for instance, heard a story about a gentleman who had an OBE (I don’t actually know whether this gentleman was near death or not). This experience took place during one or several nights. The account initially seems to speak about three nights, but on his return the gentleman notices only one night had passed. During one of this perceived nights, the gentleman is taken to his past and shown several events where he chose to neglect his loved one. The second night shows him all the current event he’s missing because of his bad attitude. The third night shows him where he’s headed if he doesn’t amend his ways. The story concludes with him miraculously surviving the night and changing his evil ways. Now: I don’t think this story was veridical. I can’t prove it, of course, but it still is a very nice and edifying story. Would you believe a story of this nature without questioning it? [/QUOTE] I don’t know what you are talking about, or why I should look all the info up for you, whatever it is you expect. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/475 "2008-04-27T04:14:13Z")
I talked about the life changing part in the scientific study, for those who said I didn’t. > [@](#): > > My name is John, however, I am not the person who I was prior to my NDE 8 years ago… > I underwent two emergency brain surgeries; during the first or second surgery, I was guided to a place of peace; love; utter contentment; warmth and total acceptance. > > Since returning to this body/life, everything changed that could possibly change, the ending of a marriage, the ending of a 15 year career, etc. I have participated in and have experienced many miraculous events since my NDE, however, one thing still plagues/troubles/eludes me to this day… Why was I brought back? Will I ever know? I am retired at a early age and have no title… The Quest for Purpose… Can you relate with this experience? > > John S., > NDE “Survivor” A nurse experience > [@](#): > > When I was 9-years-old, I was sent to a camp for two weeks as a vacation. While there, I went swimming at the lake with other children. At one point, I dove off a platform at the lake and as I was coming up from underwater, another child dove in and hit me square in the chest. This knocked all the air out of my lungs and forced me to the bottom of the lake. > When the initial shock of what happened wore off, I found myself tangled in the weeds at the bottom of a COLD lake. Terror and the pain of not being able to breathe engulfed me. I stuggled violently for what seemed like ages. Just at the point where I didn’t think I could endure anymore agony, it stopped. Not like subsided, I mean stopped as if someone flicked a switch. > > Immediately, I was filled with the most wonderful feeling of peace and joy. The pain and terror wasn’t even a memory. The darkness that surrounded me no longer was dark. I was no longer the child on the bottom of the lake, I was the lake itself. Warmth, peace, joy and an acceptance of everything was all I felt. > > Again, after what seemed like ages, the thought (or it occurs to me now as I write, that it may have been a voice in my head) that I shouldn’t be here and that I was on the bottom of a lake, came into my mind. Fear/uncertainty entered into my mind like a pin that exploded my balloon of peace. That was the last I remember of the experience until coming to on top of the raft being administered CPR. > > Apparently, when I was finally found, I had been already under the water for 10 minutes, and had no heart beat or air in my lungs. I was literally brought back to life again by the lifeguard using CPR. > > The real story however begins at this point. What fascinates me today is what happened to me after the fact. I experienced a dramatic personality change following this incident. Actually, I spoke of this to no one for many years. Not until I had heard of someone actually having a similar experience. But in the years following this incident, I became more withdrawn, introspective and (as people have told me) more mature for my years. I developed an insight and perspective on things attributable to someone much older with much more life experience. I write this post now as a 36-year-old male working in the field of psychiatry as a nurse. > > Looking back, I wish that I’d had the opportunity to be able to talk about my experience because it would have saved me years of searching/confusion about the whole thing. I felt different than most people after that experience. Had trouble connecting with kids my own age. It wasn’t until years later that I began to understand what had happened to me. Today, it has helped to solidify my belief in God, and a life ever after. I do not fear death, although I am still fearful of dying (how/when it’ll happen). But I know that this isn’t the end, and we do go on. > > Thank you for the opportunity to share this with all of you. I’d be interested to hear from others who’ve had similar experiences. This is by no means a full-description of what actually took place. The complete story is beyond words and as I get older, I find more ways to express what truly happened that day. Peace! > > M.R., RN ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/476 "2008-04-27T04:15:16Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I have done so and it was ignored. Everything I say is ignored. [/QUOTE] Both statements are factually untrue. I have been on you about this one specific issue. I have made the criteria very clear. You have agreed that you could and would meet them. You have not done so. If you believe you have met the criteria I have laid out since I have laid them out, please take the time to hit two buttons and three keys: 1. “Reply to this post.” 2. The three-digit number that identifies the post in which you believe you have met the criteria. 3. “Submit post.” I believe that if you take the time to go back over your posts, looking for that post number, you will discover that your memory is faulty, that you have NOT done what you said you would do. Go ahead–try it! If you’re right, it’ll take two mouseclicks and three keystrokes. If you’re wrong, it’s a chance for you to learn something about yourself, something every openminded person ought to want to do. Daniel Edit: I just saw post 474. The life-changing aspect mentioned in the study has NOTHING TO DO with what you said you would do. You said you would provide links to scientific research demonstrating nonphysical consciousness via perceptions during NDEs that could not otherwise be explained. Please keep your word, and please do not try to satisfy your claim with something so clearly irrelevant to your claim, interesting though it may be. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/477 "2008-04-27T04:28:21Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I don’t know what you are talking about, or why I should look all the info up for you, whatever it is you expect. [/QUOTE] I’m not asking you to look any info up. The only thing I want to know if a story/anecdote like the one I posted would be acceptable as evidence for OBE’s to you. But I know, I know: none of our stories or experiences actually interest you. The only thing that interests you is to tell us your story and that we listen to them, with open mouths, licking up the immeasurable wisdom that drips from your jaws. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/478 "2008-04-27T04:37:27Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I talked about the life changing part in the scientific study, for those who said I didn’t. [/quote] An anonymous anecdote, and dismissed as such. > [@lekatt](#): > > A nurse experience An anonymous anecdote, and dismissed as such. What part of “No more anonymous anecdotes” are you having trouble understanding, **lekatt**? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/479 "2008-04-27T11:39:08Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Both statements are factually untrue. I have been on you about this one specific issue. I have made the criteria very clear. You have agreed that you could and would meet them. You have not done so. If you believe you have met the criteria I have laid out since I have laid them out, please take the time to hit two buttons and three keys: 1. “Reply to this post.” 2. The three-digit number that identifies the post in which you believe you have met the criteria. 3. “Submit post.” I believe that if you take the time to go back over your posts, looking for that post number, you will discover that your memory is faulty, that you have NOT done what you said you would do. Go ahead–try it! If you’re right, it’ll take two mouseclicks and three keystrokes. If you’re wrong, it’s a chance for you to learn something about yourself, something every openminded person ought to want to do. Daniel Edit: I just saw post 474. The life-changing aspect mentioned in the study has NOTHING TO DO with what you said you would do. You said you would provide links to scientific research demonstrating nonphysical consciousness via perceptions during NDEs that could not otherwise be explained. Please keep your word, and please do not try to satisfy your claim with something so clearly irrelevant to your claim, interesting though it may be. [/QUOTE] All the evidence you or anyone else needs to start their own study of near death experiences is in post no.425. If you ignore it, explain it away, then no further evidence however real will suffice to please you. There is an estimated twelve million people in the US that have experienced NDEs. Hundreds of thousands of these experiences are printed in books, magazines, on the web, and in other media. For years science has called these experiencers every name from ignorant to mentally ill. The time has come for the experiences to “come out” and stand for what they know is real and true. Science will find it harder and harder to censor these experiences, to suppress the data, and ignore the facts by using doctrine and other “made up” reasons why they are not acceptible. In the meantime honest scientists are hard at work with research and studies. It is only a matter of time. I will provide a link to many others studies and links. Use it if you can, pass it by if you must. > **[Question 28 about Near Death Experiences.](https://aleroy.com/FAQz28.htm)** > > Question 28 about Near Death Experiences. > [@](#): > > Experiencer Speaks Out. > > Hello. > I have had a lot of experiences and none of you seem bonkers to me. > > I know there are psychics out there that act like they have a direct line to the here-after, and priests and scholars and politicians, but they can all suck on my big toe for just the least of what I have experienced. > > And let me say this, it is one thing to be an angel and another thing to be an angel incarnate. > > We hold the ball in center court and they know it. It takes no less than a great deal of bravery to pop in here. > > Many, many things are possible. There are worlds beyond this world and there is life before and beyond this life. Much goes on behind the scenes, even amongst each other. We are not here by chance. > > These are perilous times, there are far worse things yet to come. I am uncertain what to do or whether I should do anything at all. No doubt there are great challenges and opportunities ahead for each of us. > > When you have lost yourself, and your beliefs, and your fears; when you rise in the morning with a heart full of joy, and lay down at night with a heart broken for all of humanity; then shall the cause of things make themselves known to you. > > Anon ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686/480 "2008-04-27T12:30:35Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Um, did you see post #326? [/QUOTE] Note, he never verified or answered questions about Bigfoot’s DNA. [QUOTE=lekatt] I have done so and it was ignored. Everything I say is ignored. [/QUOTE] As have you done to many of us here. We’ve given you numerous instances of people hallucinating-and yet, you never answer them. Tit for tat, dude. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-recent-hijacks-removed-from-original-threads/444686.md?page=25)