# Lekatt's Thread: The \*only\* place to find out about Lekatt's beliefs! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273 "2010-04-07T14:05:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/21 "2010-04-07T17:11:15Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You actually also don’t know that there is a spirit. There is zero evidence for anything that silly, yet you still believe it. Why is that? > > Someone was lying to you when they told you that. > > In a world of billions, someone will survive after a doctor has written them off. > > There isn’t a spirit world. It’s a fantasy you’re pretending is real. Basing public policy on fantasies isn’t a good idea. What if someone has their head sheared off by a helicopter blade? Should we keep them on a heart-lung machine… you know, in case their spirit decides to re-animate their body? > > You owe it to yourself to look up the word fatal before you make such an embarrassing assertion again. A know what fatal means, I was given 6 months to live 20 years ago. A friend of mine was given 4 months that was 10 years ago. You see there is a higher authority than doctors. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/22 "2010-04-07T17:12:14Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Has happened before, they used to put a string to a bell in the graveyard so if the bell rang they could dig up the person still alive. I’m feeling very Ricky Gervais listening to Karl Pilkington with this one. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/23 "2010-04-07T17:13:26Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > A know what fatal means, I was given 6 months to live 20 years ago. A friend of mine was given 4 months that was 10 years ago. Apparently you \*don’t \*know what “fatal” means. Now if you’re doctor looked down at your corpse and said, “It’s fatal,” then you’d have an argument. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/24 "2010-04-07T17:13:32Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > We already know all about **lekatt’s** beliefs. What we need is a thread called ‘Lekatt’s evidence’. I’m pretty sure it would be a short thread. You don’t have a clue as to what my beliefs are, you are just assuming you do. People assume they know a lot of things, but don’t, when they grow older and wiser they will understand. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/25 "2010-04-07T17:13:57Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Not my evidence. The evidence of dozens of scientific researchers working at a dozen or more universities. Yes, they are doctors, and yes their finding have been published in scientific journals. Strickly by the books. If they existed, you would have cited them before now. Since you haven’t, we have no reason to believe you. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/26 "2010-04-07T17:14:39Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Has happened before, they used to put a string to a bell in the graveyard so if the bell rang they could dig up the person still alive. You do understand that: [ul] [li]This was never common.[/li][li]It was a result of people in the pre-industrial age being terrified of being buried alive.[/li][li]Primitive medical science at the time made it much more likely to mis-diagnose death.[/li][li]Does nothing to bolster the childish claim that there is an intangible spirit.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/27 "2010-04-07T17:17:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If they existed, you would have cited them before now. Since you haven’t, we have no reason to believe you. You don’t have any reason to believe me with or without cites. All you will do is say they are not good science. Been there, done that. Those that want cites google “near death experiences” and start reading. Tons of material. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/28 "2010-04-07T17:18:52Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You don’t have any reason to believe me with or without cites. All you will do is say they are not good science. Been there, done that. > > Those that want cites google “near death experiences” and start reading. Tons of material. It’s _your_ claim, so _you_ provide the cites. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/29 "2010-04-07T17:21:48Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Those that want cites google “near death experiences” and start reading. Tons of material. Dude, this is the Internet. I could google “Elizabeth Taylor’s Colostomy Bag” and come up with tons of material. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/30 "2010-04-07T17:22:32Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > A know what fatal means, I was given 6 months to live 20 years ago. So a doctor was wrong. No one is saying that doctors are infallible, they provide estimates based on statistical information. Perhaps you were an outlier. > [@](#): > > A friend of mine was given 4 months that was 10 years ago. You see there is a higher authority than doctors. Meaningless. That a doctor can be wrong isn’t news to anyone. You are pretending that random incidences are evidence of the fantasy world you wish to believe in. Watch how easy it is: You didn’t die when given six months to live. Obviously it means you’ve been possessed by a horrifying demon and while you sleep you fly out of your apartment and give STDs to homeless people. _The fact you didn’t die proves you’re possessed!_ ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/31 "2010-04-07T17:45:28Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Dude, this is the Internet. I could google “Elizabeth Taylor’s Colostomy Bag” and come up with tons of material. That’s a hell of a big bag. > [@lekatt](#): > > The evidence of dozens of scientific researchers working at a dozen or more universities. Yes, they are doctors, and yes their finding have been published in scientific journals. Strickly by the books. Name. One. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/32 "2010-04-07T17:52:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If you thought there was hope of her waking up before they removed the feeding tube, why isn’t there still hope of that now? I mean, if her soul is all that matters, and that’s still intact, mightn’t her remains wake up and crawl out of her coffin or urn or wherever she is? Just like Count Dracula 😮 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/33 "2010-04-07T17:54:36Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It would not be the first time someone survived a fatal accident. Yes, it would. If the victim survived, the accident was not fatal. _By definition_, you cannot survive a fatal accident. > [@lekatt](#): > > A body is dead when there is no heart or brain activity. But the consciousness controlling the body is never dead. So sure yourself. So, does that mean a dead person is never actually dead? You have argued that medical science cannot determine with certainty the time of death. Therefore, I am asking _you_ at what point the rights of an individual die. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Dude, this is the Internet. I could google “Elizabeth Taylor’s Colostomy Bag” and come up with tons of material. [It’s closer than you might think.](http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=elizabeth+taylor%27s+colostomy+bag&word2=near+death+experiences) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/34 "2010-04-07T18:45:07Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Those that want cites google “near death experiences” and start reading. Tons of material. There’s a very fundamental flaw with this approach of yours. There’s no way of guaranteeing that if I do some googling, I will come up with citations that you personally find compelling. I might say, “well, this is clearly nonsense! How can you believe this?” only to eventually discover that the cite I chose is one that you also happen to think is nonsense, thus wasting everybody’s time. If you’re at all interested in having a discussion about these things, rather than simply shouting your own opinions and sticking your fingers in your ears to avoid hearing other peoples’ opinions, the way to start is by offering up information that has led you to your conclusions. If you post a link - a cite, if I dare use that fraught word - and say, “Here. This is evidence (or an argument, or debate, or whatever) that I find convincing and compelling,” then there’s a place for a conversation to begin. There’s some substance there to debate. There’s _something_ more than just empty words flying around. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/35 "2010-04-07T18:55:14Z")
> [@Angry Lurker](#): > > Link to leakatt’s website for benefit of any lurkers: [http://aleroy.com/](http://aleroy.com/) Now I need a bath.☹ ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/36 "2010-04-07T19:01:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You do understand that: > [ul] > [li]This was never common.[/li][li]It was a result of people in the pre-industrial age being terrified of being buried alive.[/li][li]Primitive medical science at the time made it much more likely to mis-diagnose death.[/li][li]Does nothing to bolster the childish claim that there is an intangible spirit.[/li][/ul] I don’t know how common it was, but since embalming became prevalent there was no need for the bells. As for the intangibel spirit, you are one, and will find out at some time in your life. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/37 "2010-04-07T19:11:49Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > There’s a very fundamental flaw with this approach of yours. There’s no way of guaranteeing that if I do some googling, I will come up with citations that you personally find compelling. I might say, “well, this is clearly nonsense! How can you believe this?” only to eventually discover that the cite I chose is one that you also happen to think is nonsense, thus wasting everybody’s time. > > If you’re at all interested in having a discussion about these things, rather than simply shouting your own opinions and sticking your fingers in your ears to avoid hearing other peoples’ opinions, the way to start is by offering up information that has led you to your conclusions. If you post a link - a cite, if I dare use that fraught word - and say, “Here. This is evidence (or an argument, or debate, or whatever) that I find convincing and compelling,” then there’s a place for a conversation to begin. There’s some substance there to debate. There’s _something_ more than just empty words flying around. I have been looking for someone to discuss this with for ages on this board, but no takers. They either don’t know or won’t read the research, or read part of it and say it’s faulted or some other lame excuse. OK I will post the research, I did not write this but I did ask permission and received it to put this on my site. This link spreads out into about 100 other links and covers a lot of the near death experiences research. Read what you will, and if you wish to discuss it intelligently I am your man. > **[Q & A - 28 Is there Proof that NDEs are Real? - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](https://aleroy.com/blog/archives/72/q-a-28)** > > There are a number of well documented cases of people having near death experiences / out of body experiences, even during a flat EEG where brain and heart activity had ceased, Dr. Jeffrey Long, has just published a book “Evidence for the Afterlife.” He is a long time researcher and has a very large near death experience site. His book is doing well and he has been on the talk show circuit as well as taking on all skeptics that wish to debate it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/38 "2010-04-07T19:26:54Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I have been looking for someone to discuss this with for ages on this board, but no takers. They either don’t know or won’t read the research, or read part of it and say it’s faulted or some other lame excuse. OK I will post the research, I did not write this but I did ask permission and received it to put this on my site. This link spreads out into about 100 other links and covers a lot of the near death experiences research. Read what you will, and if you wish to discuss it intelligently I am your man. > > [Q & A - 28 Is there Proof that NDEs are Real? - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2007/10/q-a-28/) > > Dr. Jeffrey Long, has just published a book “Evidence for the Afterlife.” He is a long time researcher and has a very large near death experience site. His book is doing well and he has been on the talk show circuit as well as taking on all skeptics that wish to debate it. _NO_. Not acceptable. Please provide a link to a cite that provides evidence to your claims. No book reviews. No blogs. No anecdotes, anonymous or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/39 "2010-04-07T19:32:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > As for the intangibel spirit, you are one, and will find out at some time in your life. I think it is much more likely that you, hopefully many years from now, will die, your consciousness will end and you’ll never know how wrong you were. So I guess you win that one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/40 "2010-04-07T19:37:44Z")
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