# Lekatt's Thread: The \*only\* place to find out about Lekatt's beliefs! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273 "2010-04-07T14:05:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/401 "2010-04-18T00:55:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Suicide and schools shootings are related. They are violence turned inward and outward. They are done by people who feel they have no options, no way out, they are without hope for the future. They want to wreck people who treated them unjustly and know the law will never do it, and since God doesn’t exist He won’t either. Years ago people could look over injustice believing that God would right all wrongs so they didn’t need to. “Vengence is mine saith the Lord, I will repay.” Believing that was consoling and allowed patience in the face of evil. Now the anger builds and builds until it explodes, after all science says God doesn’t exist. No higher power to come to the rescue, no John Wayne and the horse soldiers. So if God does not exist, then God won’t punish them either if they act in vigilante style to right the wrongs they perceive done to them. Doesn’t matter whether the injustices were real or not, only if they were perceived as real. This, of course, is all invented speculation on your part that ignores reality. First you ignore the evidence that violence has not actually been in an ascending spiral ever since “science” took over, (whenever that is supposed to have happened), then you blame it on “science” when the majority of acts of violence (that are actually decreasing) continue to occur in locations where science is poorly taught and is not followed, anyway. Just like your NDEs for which you can only point to anecdotes and then pretend that there is serious research happening, you are now going to make up new claims against “science” that are actually contradicted by the facts. You inhabit an interesting world, even when you are the only one there. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/402 "2010-04-18T01:11:54Z")
Having just re-read this thread, I find that my initial reaction was correct. Other than letting **lekatt** display his opposition to science for a new audience, (both his philosophical opposition to his idea of science, that occurs only in his mind, and his practical opposition to actually learning scientific method and applying it to his approach to events), this thread has simply provided another opportunity to irritate posters who actually engaged **lekatt** in good faith. If someone has some point that they think needs to be made, make it soon, because I am going to close this down by tomorrow morning. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/403 "2010-04-18T10:04:41Z")
I want to add something. I don’t think it is consistent for **Lekatt** to get stuck on the definition of ‘clinical death’- a fairly technical term when you get down to it- and reject the rest of the scientific method. If he really wants to defend his brand of Cartesian dualism, he would do better to rave about Schrodinger’s equation than NDE’s. Or, as pretty much everyone else has pointed out, provide more rigorous scientific evidence for his current claims. But even if he’s wrong, the experiences he describes probably aren’t fully understood, as consciousness itself is not fully understood. I could be wrong though. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/404 "2010-04-18T10:31:13Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > They want to wreck people who treated them unjustly and know the law will never do it, and since God doesn’t exist He won’t either. Care to provide an actual cite–_ **not your blog** _–for this assertion about suicides? And whilre you’re going about that, perhaps you’d care to explain why school districts over 50 years ago had response procedures for bomb threats if there were no bomb threats back then. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/405 "2010-04-18T14:14:15Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Care to provide an actual cite–_ **not your blog** _–for this assertion about suicides? And whilre you’re going about that, perhaps you’d care to explain why school districts over 50 years ago had response procedures for bomb threats if there were no bomb threats back then. We hid under our desks, and built backyard bomb shelters. Afraid of an atom bomb attack from Russia. Hardly the subject of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/406 "2010-04-18T14:26:44Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > We hid under our desks, and built backyard bomb shelters. Afraid of an atom bomb attack from Russia. Hardly the subject of this thread. Well, then, **lekatt** , you’re perfectly welcome to get back to the subject of the thread. How about answering some of the topical questions posed to you earlier? Unless…you don’t have an answer. In which case, it would behoove you to stay away from scientific, including medical, threads seeing as how it’s not your strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/407 "2010-04-18T14:50:29Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Well, then, **lekatt** , you’re perfectly welcome to get back to the subject of the thread. How about answering some of the topical questions posed to you earlier? > > Unless…you don’t have an answer. In which case, it would behoove you to stay away from scientific, including medical, threads seeing as how it’s not your strong suit. Check out the subject of this thread, I am on subject. Now I know science and the method as well as I know religion and the method, I just don’t happen to agree with either of them. This is, after all, a place to debate our differences, or I thought it was. How about some real physical evidence showing what you believe is worthy of debate. You can’t debate theories or opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/408 "2010-04-18T14:59:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > We hid under our desks, and built backyard bomb shelters. Afraid of an atom bomb attack from Russia. Hardly the subject of this thread. Since sub-atomic CUs are sentient and held together by love, there is no need to fear an atom bomb attack. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/409 "2010-04-18T15:21:03Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Since sub-atomic CUs are sentient and held together by love, there is no need to fear an atom bomb attack. Obviously, this means that nuclear power works by [destroying love](http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/11/27/8-bit-chronicles-3-of-3/). No wonder the Greens hate them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/410 "2010-04-18T15:27:10Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > We hid under our desks, and built backyard bomb shelters. Afraid of an atom bomb attack from Russia. Hardly the subject of this thread. I’m talking about the more mundane type of bomb threats, just like you were talking about. It is the height of dishonesty to use the term one way and then when the person you’re discussing the issue with uses the term the very same way you pretend it was used with a different meaning. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/411 "2010-04-18T18:01:05Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m talking about the more mundane type of bomb threats, just like you were talking about. It is the height of dishonesty to use the term one way and then when the person you’re discussing the issue with uses the term the very same way you pretend it was used with a different meaning. There weren’t any mundane bomb threats. No school shootings, no metal detectors, what more can I say. I was there, I experienced it. Things like that were not even thought of during those times. Our vices, were cussing, drinking beer, and smoking cigarettes. I can’t tell you about things I never experienced. Oh yes, occassionally someone would shoot off a firecracker in the school yard. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/412 "2010-04-18T18:03:12Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Obviously, this means that nuclear power works by [destroying love](http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/11/27/8-bit-chronicles-3-of-3/). No wonder the Greens hate them. Look, I know all you want to do is make fun, and belittle my experiences, it’s OK if you must, but I won’t be answering your posts. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/413 "2010-04-18T18:11:44Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I want to add something. > > I don’t think it is consistent for **Lekatt** to get stuck on the definition of ‘clinical death’- a fairly technical term when you get down to it- and reject the rest of the scientific method. > > If he really wants to defend his brand of Cartesian dualism, he would do better to rave about Schrodinger’s equation than NDE’s. Or, as pretty much everyone else has pointed out, provide more rigorous scientific evidence for his current claims. > > But even if he’s wrong, the experiences he describes probably aren’t fully understood, as consciousness itself is not fully understood. I could be wrong though. Clinical death is easy to define and understand, check out the AMA definition. I am not defending Cartesian dualism, I am talking about the Oneness, nor is the evidence presented by near death researchers not rigorous. I am not wrong, been there, experienced, talked to hundreds that have been there also. It’s OK if you don’t believe the research, I don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/414 "2010-04-18T19:57:14Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Clinical death is easy to define and understand, check out the AMA definition. I am not defending Cartesian dualism, I am talking about the Oneness, nor is the evidence presented by near death researchers not rigorous. Well it sounds like you are defending Cartesian duality. It sounds like you are saying there is the physical world, and then, separate and separable from that are minds or the ‘spirit’ or what have you. And I guess I missed the part about the ‘Oneness’, sorry. It appears the scientific community doesn’t accept as evidence what you present as evidence. Your response is to be a maverick about science- rejecting it while also rejecting religion, in favor of direct personal experience and personal anecdotes. At the end of the day I guess I am ok with that. I still think at least consistency is required of you though. I don’t think ‘clinical death’ is available to you as a rhetorical tool under the circumstances. Look what I have done. I talked a bunch of woo about prana, but then pointed to some accepted medical research that shows some measurable and repeatable results from the theory. Which proves… something is going on, not necessarily the woo part of it though. You take a stance of not wishing to cater to the science types’ preferences in forms of evidence for woo, but ISTM that is because you can’t supply them with the kind of evidence they request. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/415 "2010-04-18T21:26:15Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well it sounds like you are defending Cartesian duality. It sounds like you are saying there is the physical world, and then, separate and separable from that are minds or the ‘spirit’ or what have you. And I guess I missed the part about the ‘Oneness’, sorry. > It appears the scientific community doesn’t accept as evidence what you present as evidence. Your response is to be a maverick about science- rejecting it while also rejecting religion, in favor of direct personal experience and personal anecdotes. At the end of the day I guess I am ok with that. I still think at least consistency is required of you though. I don’t think ‘clinical death’ is available to you as a rhetorical tool under the circumstances. > > Look what I have done. I talked a bunch of woo about prana, but then pointed to some accepted medical research that shows some measurable and repeatable results from the theory. Which proves… something is going on, not necessarily the woo part of it though. You take a stance of not wishing to cater to the science types’ preferences in forms of evidence for woo, but ISTM that is because you can’t supply them with the kind of evidence they request. Well, that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it, however, the doctors that are doing the research believe it’s ok along with others who read it. Just no accounting for taste. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/416 "2010-04-18T22:24:56Z")
Enough. This thread is through and lekatt’s prohibition against citing (or attacking) (his version of) “science” when he clearly has no understanding of the topic is back in force. This also means that no one is to bait him into posting his stuff in other threads. If he wants to talk about his views of spirituality, even linking to his blog to do so, that is permitted. However, he is prohibited from making claims about scientific research and then linking to collected anecdotes to support his claim. Similarly, everyone else is prohibited from making comments about his beliefs regarding (his ideas of) science that would encourage him to break the prohibition in his own defense. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273.md?page=20)