# Lekatt's Thread: The \*only\* place to find out about Lekatt's beliefs! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273 "2010-04-07T14:05:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/41 "2010-04-07T20:00:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _NO_. Not acceptable. Please provide a link to a cite that provides evidence to your claims. > No book reviews. > No blogs. > No anecdotes, anonymous or otherwise. See, lekatt, the problem here is that what you’ve provided isn’t evidence - it’s just words on your website. I could go put together a website that’s full of all the opposite words, and it would be equally valid. You need some hard, valid, real evidence. Surely you can see the difference. If I attempted to present what you’ve given me at a scientific conference, I would rightly be laughed out. Not because my theories are just too far from the mainstream, or because they’re all close-minded idiots, but because I’ve offered _nothing_ but words. By the way, I’m sorry if I’ve inadvertently gotten your hopes up. I have no real interest in debating your actual theories or beliefs or whatever you want to call them. My interest is purely educational. I’m trying to get you to understand _why_ no one will take your pet ideas seriously, and what _you_ need to change if you want to have a real discussion. If you offer up something real and substantial for debate, I guarantee you’ll have people here willing to chew it over. I’m training as a scientist. Sloppy, unfocused, illogical thinking is beginning to irritate me more and more, and I have this urge to try to, well, fight ignorance wherever I can. I realize this may be a hopeless effort, but it’s worth a paragraph or two. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/42 "2010-04-07T20:19:38Z")
In **Lekatt’s** defense, there was a pretty good documentary on this stuff a few years ago, it’s called “The Sixth Sense” and was created by the well respected researcher M. Night Shyamalan. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/43 "2010-04-07T20:40:23Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > See, lekatt, the problem here is that what you’ve provided isn’t evidence - it’s just words on your website. I could go put together a website that’s full of all the opposite words, and it would be equally valid. You need some hard, valid, real evidence. Surely you can see the difference. If I attempted to present what you’ve given me at a scientific conference, I would rightly be laughed out. Not because my theories are just too far from the mainstream, or because they’re all close-minded idiots, but because I’ve offered _nothing_ but words. > > By the way, I’m sorry if I’ve inadvertently gotten your hopes up. I have no real interest in debating your actual theories or beliefs or whatever you want to call them. My interest is purely educational. I’m trying to get you to understand _why_ no one will take your pet ideas seriously, and what _you_ need to change if you want to have a real discussion. If you offer up something real and substantial for debate, I guarantee you’ll have people here willing to chew it over. I’m training as a scientist. Sloppy, unfocused, illogical thinking is beginning to irritate me more and more, and I have this urge to try to, well, fight ignorance wherever I can. I realize this may be a hopeless effort, but it’s worth a paragraph or two. As I have said many times, not my research, not my ideas, I guess you never got to the real research. It’s Ok, most don’t. I don’t have pet ideas, I have first-hand up-front real experience. Forget it. The one thing you don’t understand is that all those researchers went in as skeptics and came out as believers. It takes some time and effort to study unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/44 "2010-04-07T20:46:40Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Dr. Jeffrey Long, has just published a book “Evidence for the Afterlife.” He is a long time researcher and has a very large near death experience site. His book is doing well and he has been on the talk show circuit as well as taking on all skeptics that wish to debate it. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously when they refer to themselves as a doctor but [aren’t actually licensed to practice medicine](https://fortress.wa.gov/doh/providercredentialsearch/ProviderDetail_1.aspx?CredentialIdnt=409609). ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/45 "2010-04-07T20:51:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I have a hard time taking anyone seriously when they refer to themselves as a doctor but [aren’t actually licensed to practice medicine](https://fortress.wa.gov/doh/providercredentialsearch/ProviderDetail_1.aspx?CredentialIdnt=409609). I can think of many doctor degrees that don’t practice medicine, so what. [http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2009/04/583/](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2009/04/583/) Here is another doctor telling his story before the United Nations. The day will come when near death experience research will overwhelm mainstream science. Then we can get on with helping people in ways that are meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/46 "2010-04-07T20:56:03Z")
Heck, I can buy that medical science and its practitioners make mistakes. I’m just unclear what the higher authority is that is apparantly over-ruling them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/47 "2010-04-07T21:05:33Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > As I have said many times, not my research, not my ideas, I guess you never got to the real research. It’s Ok, most don’t. I don’t have pet ideas, I have first-hand up-front real experience. Forget it. The one thing you don’t understand is that all those researchers went in as skeptics and came out as believers. It takes some time and effort to study unfortunately. Can you provide a _direct_ link to a peer-reviewed study that supports your theory-yes or no? No more links to your anecdote-filled website. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/48 "2010-04-07T21:07:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, it would. If the victim survived, the accident was not fatal. _By definition_, you cannot survive a fatal accident. > > So, does that mean a dead person is never actually dead? Miracle Max: “Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There’s a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there’s usually only one thing you can do. … Go through his clothes and look for loose change.” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/49 "2010-04-07T21:08:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I have said the brain is an interface for the spirit. And since she no longer had a brain, she no longer had an interface for her spirit, unless that USB Blue-tooth disguised as a butt plug was the interface. Since she no longer had an interface for her spirit, there was no reason to keep the rest of her body percolating, unless you can prove that a human brain can grow out of nothing. Please provide a cite that proves that a human’s brain can grow out of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/50 "2010-04-07T21:08:36Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I can think of many doctor degrees that don’t practice medicine, so what. > > [http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2009/04/583/](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2009/04/583/) > > Here is another doctor telling his story before the United Nations. > > The day will come when near death experience research will overwhelm mainstream science. Then we can get on with helping people in ways that are meaningful. No. More. _Stories_. Can you provide a direct link to a peer-reviewed study? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/51 "2010-04-07T21:15:49Z")
Ya know what? This is “supposed to be” Great Debates. To me, that means people take a side in the argument, and use logic - cold hard logic - and facts - cold hard documented facts - to present differing views. It is not the place to just make up or parrot a bunch of new age spiritualitizational jibber jabber, and then expect people to believe you, no matter what the evidence, indicators, documentation or just simple logic dictate. Sadly, too many of the threads here devolve into just that. It’s garbage. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/52 "2010-04-07T21:19:31Z")
**TWEEEET!!** This is futile (for parties on both sides) and can only end in tears. **lekatt** either genuinely fails to understand science or really does not care to understand science, so he will continually push anecdotes emanating from people who have a science background who are not engaging in scientific research and his opponents will continually badger him until one or both sides begin edging into personal insults. This thread is closed. **[/Moderating]** ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/53 "2010-04-07T22:01:45Z")
Further discussion on the topic of this thread is ongoing at > **[Marley and lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=558795)** > > Yes, yes, and yes. Look, I don’t know what the deal is with lekatt. Evidently, he’s some sort of evangelical. That’s fine, it doesn’t matter to me one way or another. But whenever people post questionable claims here, they’re expected to be able... ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/54 "2010-04-08T00:25:33Z")
OK. After some staff discussion and in light of the fact that this thread was started after the express instructions of Marley, moderating the other thread, I am going to open this thread, again. HOWEVER, there is still a problem. After repeatedly hijacking threads with erroneous claims that “science” supported his particular views of life after death, citing only the anecdotes on his own web site, **lekatt** was told to refrain from posting claims that “science” had done any such thing unless he could provide a citation to an actual scientific experiment. By engaging in this thread, we must either give **lekatt** permission to cite the anecdotes on his web site or else tell him that he cannot post in a thread opened to ask him questions. Since there appears to be an interest in giving him a forum, I do not want to see any whining or attacks on \*\*lekatt \*\* just because he is unable to support his claims. If you do not think this is fair, then just stay out of this thread. **lekatt** is under the impression that a doctor interviewing a bunch of people who have been in induced comas or in unconscious states and asking them what they “remember” about that period is the same sort of science as actually determining whether a person has recognized outside stimuli when they were clinically dead. Nothing is going to change his belief, so if you want to engage him at that level, you do so with this advance warning. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/55 "2010-04-08T01:15:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > That is why some people “wake up” after being dead for hours and others never wake up. Don’t you think it more likely that the dead people who woke up weren’t actually dead in the first place? > [@](#): > > Her brain was not totally destroyed, but even if it was, there are no limitations in the spirit world. You are aware that the different parts of the brain do different things, right? Given that, which part is this interface with our spirit? If there are no limitations in the spirit world, why don’t we just ask Terri Schiavo for the answers? > [@lekatt](#): > > You don’t have any reason to believe me with or without cites. All you will do is say they are not good science. What would you say are the differences between “good science” and “bad science”? > [@lekatt](#): > > The day will come when near death experience research will overwhelm mainstream science. Then we can get on with helping people in ways that are meaningful. Such as? What possible good could research into near death experiences do? What can it predict? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/56 "2010-04-08T01:27:20Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The day will come when near death experience research will overwhelm mainstream science. Then we can get on with helping people in ways that are meaningful. For this to happen, it would have to be overwhelming in its very nature, and if this were so, nothing could stop it (or could already have stopped it). What’s preventing it from overwhelming mainstream science _right now_? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/57 "2010-04-08T02:16:42Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The day will come when near death experience research will overwhelm mainstream science. Then we can get on with helping people in ways that are meaningful. Your “help” is my horror. I do not want my dead body to be kept fresh like a brainless zombie by the likes of you. Your beliefs are truly sickening. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/58 "2010-04-08T02:39:07Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Her brain was not totally destroyed, but even if it was, there are no limitations in the spirit world. Honest question: would it be worthwhile to attempt to preserve the brain following decapitation? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/59 "2010-04-08T02:43:42Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > A know what fatal means, I was given 6 months to live 20 years ago. A friend of mine was given 4 months that was 10 years ago. You see there is a higher authority than doctors. The fallibility of doctors in no way proves the existence of a higher power. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/60 "2010-04-08T03:07:22Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > OK. After some staff discussion and in light of the fact that this thread was started after the express instructions of Marley, moderating the other thread, I am going to open this thread, again. Lol! **tomndebb** made a mistake 🆒 Thus proving that he’s a spiritual being; that vampires can arise from their own ashes, kind of like a postmodernist can disappear up their own asshole… Seriously though, frame the debate thusly: **Lekatt** claims direct experience. Others ask for cites. But scientific evidence will be expressed in terms of objective reality. MRI’s, cat scans, x-rays, electron microscopes, neuron photography and all that. However, even mapping every last atom of a human body does not provide an explanation for _subjective experience_. How is this even possible? Scientists: explain. Then maybe we can tease Lekatt’s experience into the realm of science after all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273.md?page=4)