# Lekatt's Thread: The \*only\* place to find out about Lekatt's beliefs! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273 "2010-04-07T14:05:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/81 "2010-04-09T01:44:53Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > šŸ˜ƒ > > Come to think of it, do you attempt to save the head or the body, or both? If you lose the head, do you keep the body alive until you find it? Iā€™m sure thereā€™s a way to settle thisā€¦ ā€¦ heads or tails? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/82 "2010-04-09T04:00:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Iā€™m sure thereā€™s a way to settle thisā€¦ > ā€¦ heads or tails? Depends on the tail. If **Begbert2** doesnā€™t mind my answering my own questionā€¦ As 'dopers are in general agreement, life originated from self-replicating chemical elements, nucleopeptides or something (I made those up for brevity). Eventually their complexity increased; or their ability to reproduce increased. Bacteria number in unnameable numbers, but individually are only so cool. Humans reproduce with enough felicity, but compared individually to a bacterium they are almost infinitely more complex. Humans seem to compare (or maybe it is just a case of auto-species vanity) favorably to _all_ other creatures on Earth. No? But how are they self-aware? Well, I suppose a thing could be alive yet not self-aware. A slime mold probably doesnā€™t know what it is or that it is even there, yet it performs all the other functions of life. Iā€™m thinking that the state of being alive is a sort of biological circuit. The whole system runs smoothly enough on its own carnal caloric input thatā€¦ the biological circuit runs smoothly enough. In a being such as a human, there exists a highly integrated sensory apparatus. Biological functions are organized and integrated. There just happens to be ample enough brainspace and neural networking to effect the emergent property of a ā€˜willā€™, or a self-aware agent. Hard to pin down, even for all this. But it boils down to a _lot_ of neural self-reference, and a stable biological circuit. You want a cite I suppose- how about ch. 11 from the Tao Te Ching: > [@](#): > > We join spokes together in a wheel, > but it is the center hole > that makes the wagon move. > > We shape clay into a pot, > but it is the emptiness inside > that holds whatever we want. > > We hammer wood for a house, > but it is the inner space > that makes it livable. > > We work with being, > but non-being is what we use. That is not a scientific text you say? Ok. And, it would be easy to map this out mathematically, then point at it and laugh because it was just so much nonsense on a page. As abstraction it is vulnerable to these tactics. But when expressed in a bona fide biological circuit, the identity is a veridical, physical, self-aware agent. A being. But if life-forms would improve themselves from self-replicating chemicals to independent cells to self-aware organisms, is there a pattern and an end? Biologically I suppose it would be toward ever more stable, and also ever more complex, biological circuitry. Taking over a planet is a pretty good biological strategy for complex organisms, for the human species example. But if the being can be conceived abstractly, then its ends can also be conceived abstractly. The most stable abstract circuit would integrate _everything_, at which point it would be inviolable; eternal. All as One. Butā€¦ **Begbert2** , itā€™s just a brainstorm. Iā€™m not sure I am serious about each point. ETA: your camera is just a product. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/83 "2010-04-09T06:17:50Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > To be fair, the term ā€œNear Death Experienceā€ has a commonly understood meaning and itā€™s not yours, itā€™s **lekatt** ā€™s. As best I can tell thereā€™s precisely nothing out of the ordinary about the way he uses the term, other than the fact he believes theyā€™re both real and the fundamental reason for living, or something. Iā€™m aware of that ā€“ Iā€™m just being sarcastic, for the most part. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/84 "2010-04-09T15:56:31Z")
My brother is greatly improved. I wish to thank all those who wished him and I well, I appreciate your wishes. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/85 "2010-04-09T15:59:25Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Depends on the tail. > If **Begbert2** doesnā€™t mind my answering my own questionā€¦ As 'dopers are in general agreement, life originated from self-replicating chemical elements, nucleopeptides or something (I made those up for brevity). Eventually their complexity increased; or their ability to reproduce increased. Bacteria number in unnameable numbers, but individually are only so cool. Humans reproduce with enough felicity, but compared individually to a bacterium they are almost infinitely more complex. Humans seem to compare (or maybe it is just a case of auto-species vanity) favorably to _all_ other creatures on Earth. No? > > But how are they self-aware? Well, I suppose a thing could be alive yet not self-aware. A slime mold probably doesnā€™t know what it is or that it is even there, yet it performs all the other functions of life. Iā€™m thinking that the state of being alive is a sort of biological circuit. The whole system runs smoothly enough on its own carnal caloric input thatā€¦ the biological circuit runs smoothly enough. > In a being such as a human, there exists a highly integrated sensory apparatus. Biological functions are organized and integrated. There just happens to be ample enough brainspace and neural networking to effect the emergent property of a ā€˜willā€™, or a self-aware agent. Hard to pin down, even for all this. > > But it boils down to a _lot_ of neural self-reference, and a stable biological circuit. You want a cite I suppose- how about ch. 11 from the Tao Te Ching: > That is not a scientific text you say? Ok. And, it would be easy to map this out mathematically, then point at it and laugh because it was just so much nonsense on a page. As abstraction it is vulnerable to these tactics. But when expressed in a bona fide biological circuit, the identity is a veridical, physical, self-aware agent. A being. > > But if life-forms would improve themselves from self-replicating chemicals to independent cells to self-aware organisms, is there a pattern and an end? Biologically I suppose it would be toward ever more stable, and also ever more complex, biological circuitry. Taking over a planet is a pretty good biological strategy for complex organisms, for the human species example. > > But if the being can be conceived abstractly, then its ends can also be conceived abstractly. The most stable abstract circuit would integrate _everything_, at which point it would be inviolable; eternal. All as One. > > Butā€¦ **Begbert2** , itā€™s just a brainstorm. Iā€™m not sure I am serious about each point. > > ETA: your camera is just a product. Thanks for your post. It is thought provoking at its best. I am told self-awareness is a starting point. All things are created from consciousness and are self-aware. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/86 "2010-04-09T16:11:20Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > All things are created from consciousness and are self-aware. Including pencils? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/87 "2010-04-09T16:28:16Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Including pencils? Yes, including pencils. The basic particle of existence is a consciousness unit, called CU, it is thousands of times smaller than any particle discovered by man. It has the characteristics of self-awareness and intense curiosity. That is how it was explained to me. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/88 "2010-04-09T16:33:36Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > That is how it was explained to me. I am curious. What led you to believe this when it was told to you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/89 "2010-04-09T16:35:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am curious. What led you to believe this when it was told to you? More importantly, _who_ explained it to you? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/90 "2010-04-09T16:36:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am curious. What led you to believe this when it was told to you? I considered the source reliable. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/91 "2010-04-09T16:40:17Z")
I just looked it up, and the reason he wonā€™t tell you where itā€™s from is because it is from Jane Robertā€™s ā€œSethā€ con job. [Link.](http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/contact-us/privacy-policy/62-the-shift-of-the-ages-chapter-06-the-seth-entity-and-consciousness-units) ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/92 "2010-04-09T16:52:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I just looked it up, and the reason he wonā€™t tell you where itā€™s from is because it is from Jane Robertā€™s ā€œSethā€ con job. [Link.](http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/contact-us/privacy-policy/62-the-shift-of-the-ages-chapter-06-the-seth-entity-and-consciousness-units) Yes, and there also. I know from experience that spiritual things are not easy to put into physical words. I consider this the best format to use for understanding in the physical. Sethā€™s books are large and many, they will be of great help in the years to come when more and more people wish to know about these things. However, knowing about these things does not necessarily improve your life in the physical. Which is another story. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/93 "2010-04-09T16:57:47Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, and there also. There is no ā€œalsoā€. From what other source did you get that term? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/94 "2010-04-09T17:02:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There is no ā€œalsoā€. From what other source did you get that term? From my spiritual friends. I ask them about many things. Why would you consider Seth the only source of anything ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/95 "2010-04-09T17:02:44Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, including pencils. > > The basic particle of existence is a consciousness unit, called CU, it is thousands of times smaller than any particle discovered by man. So, millions of times larger than the amount of evidence youā€™ve provided, then. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/96 "2010-04-09T17:06:35Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > So, millions of times larger than the amount of evidence youā€™ve provided, then. There is a lot of consciousness walking around these days. I can see it. ---
**Author:** ![Saganist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Saganist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saganist)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/97 "2010-04-09T17:12:42Z")
I believe the idea was referenced in [Godā€™s Debris](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Debris), the textbook on the nature of the universe, by Scott Adams. Seriously, though, itā€™s an excellent read. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/98 "2010-04-09T17:19:26Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There is a lot of consciousness walking around these days. I can see it. You see [it](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lwlx3GnLGs) too? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/99 "2010-04-09T17:29:00Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > From my spiritual friends. I ask them about many things. Why would you consider Seth the only source of anything By ā€œspiritual friendsā€, do you mean human friends that are spiritual, or friends from the spirit realm? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/100 "2010-04-09T17:35:45Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > A know what fatal means, I was given 6 months to live 20 years ago. A friend of mine was given 4 months that was 10 years ago. You see there is a higher authority than doctors. Sorry for the belated quibble and minor hijack but as a statistician who works in the cancer arena this always bugs me. People tend to throw around claims that like this as proof that a miracle happened or that the doctors were totally wrong and their cancer was cured by the herbal supplement. What they fail to recognize is that this diagnosis isnā€™t a set drop dead date but rather is the estimated median survival of patients in your situation. ie 50% of patients in your situation died within 4 months with 50% living longer than 4 months. It tells you very little about individual cases. And it is possible that some cases (although less than 50%) may actually be cured. Basically your doctor is giving his best guess, and recognizes he may be wrong. In the same way if in a particular game the Washington Nationals beat the Yankees in spite of what the bookies say is the likely outcome, it doesnā€™t mean that the bookies were incompetent for making that prediction, or that there was divine intervention that let the Yankees win. The Nationals were just lucky. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273.md?page=6)