# Lekatt's Thread: The \*only\* place to find out about Lekatt's beliefs! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273 "2010-04-07T14:05:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/121 "2010-04-09T20:50:33Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > How many ways can personal experience be? Believe it or don’t, one way it can be is consistent with consensus reality. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/122 "2010-04-09T20:50:52Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Actually in retrospect I’m now realizing that you were making my point for me. Its just the “so much for statistics” comments punched a few of my buttons. In the same way that an average of 1/2" balls in the bag doesn’t mean that there aren’t balls much greater than 1/2" in the bag, a 4 month prognosis doesn’t preclude the possibility of 10 year survival. Misusing this statistic as evidence of the incompetence of doctors or the existence of miracles would fall in the region of “lies and damn lies”. OK, if a 4 month prognosis doesn’t preclude the possibility of a 10 year survival, then why give any prognosis. Saying “I just don’t know” would be fine with me. Incidentally the person with cancer I was talking about was cancer free after about 10 months. No treatments were being given during this time because the doctor had given up on him. The only thing that changed was his attitude toward death. He no longer feared it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/123 "2010-04-09T20:52:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Believe it or don’t, one way it can be is consistent with consensus reality. Whose consensus, the believers in spirit or the non-believers in spirit. Remember the people who believe in the spirit world far ournumber those that don’t. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/124 "2010-04-09T20:57:33Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Just to avoid moderator wrath I want to make it clear that in the final sentence of my previous post I am not accusing Lekatt of lying, rather saying that his misuse of statistics is the kind of thing that prompts the quote “lies, damn lies, and statistics” I neither used nor misused any statistics. It is perfectly possible to have 100 balls in a box that statistically average 1/2 inch around while none of them are actually 1/2 inch around. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/125 "2010-04-09T20:59:21Z")
That statement is about as meaningful as an assertion that the majority of Americans were opposed to the recently passed-and-signed health care reform legislation. P.S. Don’t waste your time responding. I’m not returning to read any more of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/126 "2010-04-09T22:00:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > OK, if a 4 month prognosis doesn’t preclude the possibility of a 10 year survival, then why give any prognosis. Saying “I just don’t know” would be fine with me. If you’d stayed in statistics class a little longer they might have told you about this thing called the “bell curve” - often you’ll find that the majority of cases behave similarly to one another, while a few ‘outliers’ deviate far from the norm - perhaps infinitely far. The thing that determines how useful the estimate isn’t how far off it can possibly be, but the percentage of time it’s reasonably close. If the estimate is spot on for 80% of people and pretty close for all but 0.1% of them, then the estimate is worth making. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/127 "2010-04-10T00:03:40Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I considered the source reliable. I guess that’s why I am an atheist. I have yet to find a reliable source for spiritualism or religion. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/128 "2010-04-10T00:11:11Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > What’s the difference between your mind and a dog’s mind? It’s just a matter of complexity, right? The further you climb down the evolutionary ladder the simpler the minds get until the housefly is just a wind-up toy. I think we can agree that there is not a sharp difference in the _hardware_ (as in, the brain matter/structure) when you cross the line into self-awareness. > > My current theory is that there’s not a sharp difference in the ‘software’, either; your brain patterns are pretty similar to the next critter down, with the difference in consciousness being a gradual increase in complexity rather than a ‘suddenly popped into existince with chimps’ kind of thing. > > As a computer programmer, I’m aware that most of the computer programs you run function like a simple consciousness. They don’t just run through a bunch of steps and then stop; they hang around waiting for input and reacting to it. Sometimes their reactions themselves include long calculation processes that react to data as it comes in and produce intermediate data before they end - or sometimes they never end. With my understanding of how they work I can see no difference in _kind_ between them and the human consciousness. There is a huge difference in _complexity_, but it’s roughly the same species of thing. > > Add to this, this is the only coherent explanation of consciousness I’ve _ever_ heard, _including_ the spiritual ones. Seriously, consciousness particles? How are they supposed to work in concert? Souls? Positing a soul doesn’t explain how the soul _functions_ - it just displaces the problem to someplace we can’t examine the hardware, which doesn’t change the fact that our souls demonstrably have complexity which requires interacting parts _within_ the soul. I refuse to accept “magic” as an unvarnished explanation for demontrable and consistent complexity - if it’s magic then the magic has rules, the rules can be simulated, and the entire thing can be replicated in a computer _anyway_. **Necessarily**. > > Anyway, the complete lack of alternate functional explanations leaves me no choice to but to accept my current theory until I hear a better one. Fortunately for me, my current theory seems to explain things pretty well as it is. Despite the regrettable fact that it doesn’t allow me to pretend at human unique magic specialness over machines. Thought I might try to show the differences between computer software and consciousness. If we say that consciousness is somewhat like computer software, we must remember software needs an author. So the magic you don’t want creeps back in. Then there is the problem of emotions, which computer software lacks. So if it could be shown that consciousness operates independently of the brain and body would that mean there is magic or spiritual elements to consciousness? We are all taught to believe what we believe by parents and peers. These beliefs are reinforce by either religion or science. Why do we hold these beliefs sacred and refuse to at least examine other avenues of knowledge. Our consciousness expands with learning new ideas, gaining new knowledge, but not by repeating the same beliefs over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/129 "2010-04-10T03:32:20Z")
Again, **lekatt** , how do you contact your spiritual friends? How do they contact you? I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/130 "2010-04-10T03:35:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is futile (for parties on both sides) and can only end in tears. - ::: sigh :::\* This thread was re-opened on the grounds that some posters felt there was a point to pursuing it. If that point, whatever it was supposed to have been, does not appear pretty soon, I am going to lock it, again. If there is some serious question–not simply baiting **lekatt** to see what silliness one can evoke from him–let us see it. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/131 "2010-04-10T05:37:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I guess that’s why I am an atheist. I have yet to find a reliable source for spiritualism or religion. The source lies within you, and can be found by practice. I wrote this article for religious people, mainly Christians, but atheists may be able to get something from it. > **[The Kingdom of God - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](https://aleroy.com/blog/archives/2946/room-for-all)** > > In God’s love there is room for all people. God doesn’t do credit checks, or background searches, He doesn’t exclude anyone. It doesn’t matter what you believe, or what you have done, or what you have left undone. His love embraces all. His love is... ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/132 "2010-04-10T05:42:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Again, **lekatt** , how do you contact your spiritual friends? How do they contact you? I’m curious. I guess you would call it mental telepathy. I ask and they reply. I met my spirit guide shortly after my near death experience. It is not uncommon, everyone has a spirit guide, but we are just too busy with other things to notice. There are many good books about them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/133 "2010-04-10T06:02:39Z")
By death experience, do you mean your bad dream? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/134 "2010-04-10T06:57:27Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I guess you would call it mental telepathy. I ask and they reply. I met my spirit guide shortly after my near death experience. It is not uncommon, everyone has a spirit guide, but we are just too busy with other things to notice. There are many good books about them. How would you respond to the ability to reliably recreate “near death experiences” in a centrifuge? Because they do it. Just about the same percentage of people who claim to have NDEs in the real world report having hallucinations in the centrifuge. It’s the brain’s way of reacting to trauma. There’s nothing supernatural or paranormal about it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/135 "2010-04-10T10:43:27Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > How would you respond to the ability to reliably recreate “near death experiences” in a centrifuge? Because they do it. > > Just about the same percentage of people who claim to have NDEs in the real world report having hallucinations in the centrifuge. > > It’s the brain’s way of reacting to trauma. There’s nothing supernatural or paranormal about it. No classical near death experience has ever been caused by anything other than clinical death. No pills, electrodes, or centrifuges have ever caused one. In the link below is a list of what happens in a real NDE. You can quickly see the difference. [Changed Life - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/03/changed-life/) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/136 "2010-04-10T10:47:51Z")
Perhaps I’m wrong on this but I’m getting the impression that **lekatt** just plain doesn’t want to believe in death of the brain nor even of decay of the brain. Near death, on the other hand, is a different story. So, it really doesn’t seem like a fruitful endeavor to discuss someone whose brain is dead or gone (such as Ms. Schiavo) with him. _On edit_: **lekatt** , could you perhaps link to something besides your own blog? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/137 "2010-04-10T11:40:46Z")
lekatt, some questions for you. Once a person no longer has a brain, can a person grow another brain? Is a brain necessary for a person’s consiousness? If a brain is necessary for a person’s consciousness, then once the person has no brain, can that person have consciousness? If a brain is not necessary for a person’s consciousness, then must a person’s consciousness be located in that person’s body? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/138 "2010-04-10T11:48:42Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > - ::: sigh :::\* > > This thread was re-opened on the grounds that some posters felt there was a point to pursuing it. > > If that point, whatever it was supposed to have been, does not appear pretty soon, I am going to lock it, again. > > If there is some serious question–not simply baiting **lekatt** to see what silliness one can evoke from him–let us see it. > > [/Modding] This is the forum for witnessing, and this is the forum for challenging/debating people who are witnessing. As long as the tone is acceptable to the standards in GD (e.g. no personal insults, etc.), you should not close the thread again. Please remember that the “silliness” of lekatt’s beliefs is no more and no less silly than your own Christian beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/139 "2010-04-10T11:52:28Z")
Lekatt, are all CUs the same, or are there different types of CUs? When CUs cluster together, be it in a person or in a pencil, does greater consciousness come into being? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273/140 "2010-04-10T12:02:20Z")
lekatt, why is any one collection of CUs better than any other collection of CUs? Is one person better than another person? Is a person better than a rock composed of the same number of CUs? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lekatts-thread-the-only-place-to-find-out-about-lekatts-beliefs/535273.md?page=8)