# Lemonade, jelly, and biscuits (and other foods people outside of the US have wrong) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401 "2009-01-28T17:26:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/161 "2009-02-01T01:51:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Hundreds of years ago? Please read more carefully. _Hundreds_ of years ago, Coke didn’t even exist. I was talking about how the classification issue arose when Coke entered the European market. It has nothing to do with whether the same classifications existed 20 years ago in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![3acresandatruck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/e79b87/32.png) [@3acresandatruck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3acresandatruck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/162 "2009-02-01T01:58:22Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > There was this Great Chinese Canadian Cook that had a PBS series several years ago, quite an unusal accent and odd fellow. Anybody know his name? I like to think of him as the Canadian (and Chinese) Mr. Sulu. He had a very Posh accent, a Hong Kong dialect cum Toronto I do believe, made some incredible authentic chinese dishes… Anyway, he would always mess me up with the addition of _ground nuts_ or “ground nut oil” and something called “aubergines”. Just a wild shot. That sounds sort of like [Ken Hom](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Hom) to me, but he’s not Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/163 "2009-02-01T02:12:17Z")
Oh yeah, that’s him. Thanks 3 acres… damn…I could’ve swore he was Canadian? The accent got me. Last person I thought was Canadian by dialect was actually American, turned out he was just gay. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/164 "2009-02-01T04:35:52Z")
Yea, Ken always used Cornflour instead of Cornstarch, too. Here’s another possibility, as well… The gay BBC writers and censors got to him. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/165 "2009-02-01T07:56:21Z")
> [@Chicken\_Fingers](#): > > Since barley water was mentioned as being pleasant and refreshing, why were the kids in Mary Poppins so adamant that any potential nanny “never smell of barley water”? > > Our local grocery stores (northern VA) carry barley water in the Merrie Olde England section of the international aisle (along with four kinds of “mushy” peas and canned spotted dick). I’ve been tempted to try a bottle, but am afraid I’ll end up smelling like old nanny. Four kinds of mushy peas? That’s more than I’ve ever seen or heard of here! Barley water is also not exactly common - I’ve never tried it or seen it around. I think your Merrie Olde England section is a bit out of date. > [@devilsknew](#): > > Here’s a bit of a thing, and one way to look at it… in my experience, I have found that in the UK and on the continent in parlance and specificity you have a few different classifications for what we have one single blanket term for. A digestive is a cookie, a biscuit is a cookie, sometimes those things you think of as “cakes” are cookies. Cookie probably comes from the Germanic “Kekse” and is the diminuitive for cake. A cookie is a small sweet cake everytime. A biscuit is never sweet in America. We also have a blanket term for lots of different cookies - we just say biscuit. A digestive is just a specific type of biscuit. I had no idea that cakes were ever called cookies, though. 😕 You’d see a cupcake or a battenburg cake or whatever and call it a cookie? Cakes rise during baking, biscuits (British term) don’t. Cakes go hard when left out for too long, biscuits go hard. (Thanks to the Great Jaffa Cake Court Case for these hard-and-fast definitions). I’ve always thought of cookies as being biscuits, not cakes. Though, of course, we do have a type of biscuit called cookies too, just to confuse things. 😃 I would think of Sprite and Seven Up as types of lemonade. They are lemon-flavoured fizzy drinks, same as generic lemonade - they just have brand names. Lemonade by the British definition, of course. > [@devilsknew](#): > > Oh yeah, that’s him. Thanks 3 acres… damn…I could’ve swore he was Canadian? The accent got me. Last person I thought was Canadian by dialect was actually American, turned out he was just gay. 😃 I get what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/166 "2009-02-01T09:07:52Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > I would think of Sprite and Seven Up as types of lemonade. They are lemon-flavoured fizzy drinks, same as generic lemonade - they just have brand names. Lemonade by the British definition, of course. You can’t tell the difference between lemon & lime and plain lemon? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/167 "2009-02-01T09:13:19Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > You can’t tell the difference between lemon & lime and plain lemon? Not in those drinks - it’s not as if the ‘lemon and lime’ flavours are much like the real fruits, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/168 "2009-02-01T10:12:50Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Four kinds of mushy peas? That’s more than I’ve ever seen or heard of here! Well, Batchelors do at least two types - Original and Chip Shop style, then there are the different brands. My local Sainsbury’s have four types: Batchelors Original, Sainsbury’s Chip Shop style, Harry Ramsden’s and the cheapo Basics. > [@](#): > > Barley water is also not exactly common - I’ve never tried it or seen it around. You’ve never seen barley water? Go into most supermarkets and it’ll be there alongside the bottles of squash. Robinson’s make two types, lemon and orange. It may not be popular, but it ain’t exactly rare. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/169 "2009-02-01T11:19:16Z")
> [@Kal](#): > > Well, Batchelors do at least two types - Original and Chip Shop style, then there are the different brands. My local Sainsbury’s have four types: Batchelors Original, Sainsbury’s Chip Shop style, Harry Ramsden’s and the cheapo Basics.You’ve never seen barley water? Go into most supermarkets and it’ll be there alongside the bottles of squash. Robinson’s make two types, lemon and orange. It may not be popular, but it ain’t exactly rare. Ah - four different brands, that’d make sense. I’ve never seen it in the supermarkets I use, but then I guess I’m not really hunting it out. It’s not something I’d choose as quintessentially British, or the knd of thing ex-pats would hanker after. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/170 "2009-02-01T16:20:20Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > We also have a blanket term for lots of different cookies - we just say biscuit. A digestive is just a specific type of biscuit. I had no idea that cakes were ever called cookies, though. 😕 You’d see a cupcake or a battenburg cake or whatever and call it a cookie? > > Cakes rise during baking, biscuits (British term) don’t. Cakes go hard when left out for too long, biscuits go hard. (Thanks to the Great Jaffa Cake Court Case for these hard-and-fast definitions). I’ve always thought of cookies as being biscuits, not cakes. Though, of course, we do have a type of biscuit called cookies too, just to confuse things. 😃 No, a a cupcake or a battenburg cake would not be considered a cookie here, but many of our larger, softer, and more tender varieties of cookies would likely be considered a cake by your standards. Just like an eccles cake, or a sweet oatcake, or perhaps shortbread cakes, would likely just be considered a cookie according to our standards. Umm, not to pick a nit but most cookies (biscuits) do in fact contain baking powder as leavening and do indeed rise, although it might not be perceived by the consumer in the final product. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/171 "2009-02-01T17:07:47Z")
Not to stir this pot o’ controversy re biscuits/cakes/cookies etc, but in southern America (and right here in my Midwest kitchen) you can find SWEET biscuits that are not cookies. My mother (Kentucky raised) makes sweet biscuits for a dessert called strawberry short cake, although actual strawberry shortcake uses a sponge cake (kinda like lady fingers). She makes her basic biscuit dough and adds sugar (she may mess with the fat in the recipe as well–can’t remember offhand). The biscuits are baked, allowed to cool slightly, then cut open, sliced fresh strawberries are placed on the biscuit, with a dollop of whipped cream (not the canned stuff). This would be delicious with Devonshire cream, I’m sure–another food addiction for which I have you Brits to thank. Cookies here mostly contain baking soda, some contain baking powder, some both. They do indeed rise in the oven. I am now craving all manner of baked goods. Reading this thread has made me thirsty and hungry. 🙂 I’m getting fatter by the post over here! ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/172 "2009-02-01T17:19:53Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > She makes her basic biscuit dough and adds sugar (she may mess with the fat in the recipe as well–can’t remember offhand). The biscuits are baked, allowed to cool slightly, then cut open, sliced fresh strawberries are placed on the biscuit, with a dollop of whipped cream (not the canned stuff). This would be delicious with Devonshire cream, I’m sure–another food addiction for which I have you Brits to thank. Now, that there is pretty much what I’d call a scone. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/173 "2009-02-01T19:53:06Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > No, a a cupcake or a battenburg cake would not be considered a cookie here, but many of our larger, softer, and more tender varieties of cookies would likely be considered a cake by your standards. Just like an eccles cake, or a sweet oatcake, or perhaps shortbread cakes, would likely just be considered a cookie according to our standards. > > Umm, not to pick a nit but most cookies (biscuits) do in fact contain baking powder as leavening and do indeed rise, although it might not be perceived by the consumer in the final product. Then go for the ‘hardens/softens with age’ distinction. Biscuits and cakes are taxed differently here; chocolate covered biscuits are taxed more than cakes with chocolate (which are considered an essential foodstuff, bizarrely, and untaxed). There’s a brand called Jaffa Cakes which actually went to court to prove they’re a cake rather than a biscuit (they look like biscuits, or cookies, or whatever - small and quite flat); that was one of the major distinctions they used. So in the UK at least there is a significant _legal_ distinction between a biscuit and a cake. I’ve never heard of shortbread cakes, but perhaps they’re a different beast to normal shortbread, which is definitely a biscuit here. Oatcakes are biscuits, despite the name. I see what you mean about eccles cakes, though. > [@Kal](#): > > Now, that there is pretty much what I’d call a scone. Definitely a scone. American biscuits are the same recipe as scones but without the sugar, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/174 "2009-02-01T20:34:58Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > American biscuits are the same recipe as scones but without the sugar, aren’t they? They’re similar to scones, but not sweet. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/175 "2009-02-01T21:04:50Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Then go for the ‘hardens/softens with age’ distinction. To clarify, because there was a typo earlier on, the claim was that biscuits go soft, cakes including the likes of Jaffa Cakes go hard. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/176 "2009-02-01T21:37:07Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Definitely a scone. American biscuits are the same recipe as scones but without the sugar, aren’t they? Hmmm. I make scones and never considered what my mother makes a scone. My scone recipes use cake flour and all purpose flour. I suppose the SSC my mother makes could be considered a scone… American biscuits are quite varied. They all rise, but the leavening differs per region (or used to), custom and purpose for the biscuit. Breakfast biscuits are not at all the same (in flavor) as ones served at the dinner table. I find myself at a loss here in trying to explain why (and how). Whatever, whichever, they are not cookies. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/177 "2009-02-01T22:46:33Z")
> [@Sonnenstrahl](#): > > Ooh, I have a question. In the UK, is Mars bar ever used as a sort of generic word for a chocolate bar? I get that impression from reading British books. Or is it just that Mars bars are (or were, at some point) wildly popular compared to other types? The latter - not interchangeable. > [@](#): > > I’m Canadian and have the same kind of disgusting Mars bars as the UK (the nugget is horrible!), but I’ve never seen them to be particularly prominent in real life. Disgusting?! Nugget?! What? ETA: ah, I just worked out you mean “nougat”. Granted, it’s not the same kind nougat that you’d buy in a fancy confiserie, but if you think of it as “sweet foamy goo” it’s great in context, IMO. > [@](#): > > (Also, is the term chocolate bar used in the UK? Or is it candy bar? Or is that American? Gosh, I can’t keep them all straight!) We say “chocolate bar”. Candy bar is American. And we say “sweets” not “candy” for generic confectionary. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/178 "2009-02-02T00:36:19Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > I think your Merrie Olde England section is a bit out of date. Of course! It’s _Olde!_ > [@eleanorigby](#): > > My mother (Kentucky raised) makes sweet biscuits for a dessert called strawberry short cake, although actual strawberry shortcake uses a sponge cake (kinda like lady fingers). I disagree. What your mother makes is _proper_ strawberry shortcake. Using spongecake is a (barely) acceptable shortcut. Hey, a strawberry shortcut. Ha! > [@scifisam2009](#): > > There’s a brand called Jaffa Cakes which actually went to court to prove they’re a cake rather than a biscuit (they look like biscuits, or cookies, or whatever - small and quite flat) Jaffa Cakes are the **Food of the Gods**. They’re obviously cookies/biscuits, though. ---
**Author:** ![Sonnenstrahl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Sonnenstrahl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sonnenstrahl)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/179 "2009-02-02T02:05:39Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The latter - not interchangeable.Disgusting?! Nugget?! What? > > ETA: ah, I just worked out you mean “nougat”. Granted, it’s not the same kind nougat that you’d buy in a fancy confiserie, but if you think of it as “sweet foamy goo” it’s great in context, IMO. Oops, that was a weird typo/slip/whatever. Yes, that’s what I meant. It’s not cultural, I believe, I just don’t like squishy stuff inside my chocolate bars. Well, maybe in a slightly lower concentration, like in an Oh Henry. Thanks for the clarification - for example, Harry Potter planned to buy all the Mars bars he could when he first got money, and I wondered if Mars bars were really that popular, or if it just meant chocolate bars. I guess they are. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401/180 "2009-02-02T21:37:23Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > And I think you lot have a weird name for coriander (the herb)? The seeds are coriander and the leaves are cilantro. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lemonade-jelly-and-biscuits-and-other-foods-people-outside-of-the-us-have-wrong/483401.md?page=10)