# Lena Dunham wrote a book. And now things are getting a bit ugly. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 4, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614 "2014-11-04T13:32:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/81 "2014-11-06T16:01:00Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > She got you to know she has a show and that she hosted SNL and that she has a book out with stuff in it that people are talking about on tv and IRL and making message board threads about. > > I never heard of her until this thread and now I know all that stuff too. > > I’d say that’s pretty good. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > You and the others who’d never heard of her before obviously don’t read Slate or Salon, both of which have published a long string of articles (seemingly one a week, at least) lionizing her or defending her from all the cruel haters of the world, or both. I hadn’t heard of her or her sister either until this week. I think I now know her sister intimately, rather too intimately in fact. At times it’s best that people writing about themselves just shut the hell up. Writing in intimate sexualised detail about your 3 year old sisters vajayjay is one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/82 "2014-11-06T16:05:59Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > This. I have a 1 year old and two 7 year old and at age 1 they aren’t capable of pranking. The story is suspect and the attention she is getting for it is laughable. This I definitely agree with. Baby’s idea of a first joke is to hold out something for you and then not give it to you and fall down laughing her head off. Not something like this. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/83 "2014-11-06T16:17:16Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I’ve run across Dunham before, an article about her book advance got me going and I posted about it to my blog way back in December of 2012, comparing Dunham to E.L. James and John Crowley. The article has illustrations that are totally NSFW (none involving giant hairy vaginas, though) so spoiler box ahoy: > > [Read it and weep](http://politicallysexy.blogspot.com/2012/12/el-james-vs-lena-dunham-vs-john-crowley.html). Really **Evil Captor**? > [@that blog post](#): > > In fact, the art that Dunham has show the most skill at is The Art of the Deal, arguably. I don’t see the book deal so much as a reward for great achievement as a case of rich, Jewish, New York publishers anointing One Of Their Own with $3.7 million for being able to do the literary equivalent of toddling about without falling over. … centered in New York, insular, greedy, myopic, and prone to exploit anyone it can for money … The things you find out about people … wow. Anyway, surprise surpise, the publishing industry is a business more interested in selling what people want to buy than what self-annointed bloggers decide is worthy literature. The book debuted at number 2 best selling nonfiction hardcover and is currently number 2 combined e-book and print sales. Not bad for “the literary equivalent of toddling about without falling over” eh? Again, the one year old story is highly improbable to have happend as described at one year old. Minimally a story embellished or misremembered as a childhood event. But characterizing things like a teen-aged girl covertly masturbating while co-sleeping as sexual abuse or such of the co-sleeper, or a seven year old looking at a younger sibs privates as sexual abuse, is at least as much attention whoring as this entertainer is alleged to be doing. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/84 "2014-11-06T16:37:26Z")
Kids do disturbing things often from naivety. A six or seven year old looking at a baby’s private parts. They don’t understand the disturbing significance of what they did. Dunham is an adult and for her to write about such an occurrence is just sick. imho A childhood memory like that shouldn’t be exploited in a book. It’s just wrong and borderline kiddie porn. Thankfully I’m not familiar with Dunham’s film work and have no interest in seeing her work. She sounds like a real sleaze. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/85 "2014-11-06T16:45:51Z")
> [@singular1](#): > > Well, I figured it would be a link to a Wikipedia article about the guy, which would probably have a small picture of a painting in the corner. Instead I had a full 21" monitor with large pictures that are sure to set off HR complaints from anyone passing by. It didn’t offend me, but it isn’t an image I would voluntarily open at work. Thankfully no one was near when it opened, & now it’s been labeled, so carry on. My bad for even thinking clicking it was prudent, true. Sorry if I came across as a prude. I just work with some. > > And Lena Dunham is definitely a narcissistic piece of work best ignored, her father’s lousy art notwithstanding. Again I do apologize. It never occurred to me to 2 link it because there were no realistic pictures. Those are the Google results with the safe search on. In retrospect I should have erred on the side of caution. > [@anu-la1979](#): > > +1 > > I’ll also add that she represents the absolute worst of what I’ve come to peg as “NYC provincialism.” Which is when you believe you’re an interesting person simply because you live in and/or grew up in New York. Not a bad way of putting it. I tend to think of it as Hipster Elite. In the last why does everyone hate Lena thread there was a linked article in which she made the reporter who was interviewing her meet her in Williamsberg Brooklyn while she was visiting a shelter to adopt a rescue dog. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/86 "2014-11-06T16:47:10Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > This. I have a 1 year old and two 7 year old and at age 1 they aren’t capable of pranking. The story is suspect and the attention she is getting for it is laughable. Ugh I hate that I keep defending Lena but…do you really think that she thinks that her sister thought that at 1 year old she was playing a prank? Or, maybe, perhaps in Dunham’s years at College For Writing they had a short lesson on hyperbole? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/87 "2014-11-06T18:04:21Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > She got you to know she has a show and that she hosted SNL and that she has a book out with stuff in it that people are talking about on tv and IRL and making message board threads about. > > I never heard of her until this thread and now I know all that stuff too. > > I’d say that’s pretty good. I think you’d have to be really desperate for that level of recognition to be “pretty good”. Especially since the all the eye-rolling directed at her indicates that people in general are getting bored of her. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/88 "2014-11-06T19:21:11Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > I think you’d have to be really desperate for that level of recognition to be “pretty good”. Especially since the all the eye-rolling directed at her indicates that people in general are getting bored of her. Funny enough though enough people are not bored that her book is maintaining number 2 on the best seller list. “In general” as reflected by people caring enough to roll their eyes and complain, don’t matter too much, so long as enough people are “so bored” that they buy the books, watch the show, etc. … I am not a fan. You are not a fan. But apparently lots of people like her work. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/89 "2014-11-06T19:57:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Really **Evil Captor**?The things you find out about people … wow. I know just how you feel. > [@](#): > > Anyway, surprise surpise, the publishing industry is a business more interested in selling what people want to buy than what self-annointed bloggers decide is worthy literature. The book debuted at number 2 best selling nonfiction hardcover and is currently number 2 combined e-book and print sales. Well that’s why I picked the three authors I did to compare and contrast. E.L. James’ “Fifty Shades of Grey” was already a bestseller when it was bought for six figures (no one will say whether that means 1 million or 9.9 millions … quite a range, eh?) THAT was a business decision … they KNEW they had a hit on their hands, they were just bidding for the right to use their marketing muscle to get it in widespread circulation. Big publishers know just how to make all the traditional media plug a book, that’s how Snookie’s book got on the New York Times Top 10 bestseller list. Now what they did for Dunham was entirely different. She didn’t have a book written, just a book proposal. And if you read the article I link to in my blog, her proposal was a 66 page mess, 13% of which was, by volume, a list of foods she ate in 2010. That’s right, a New York publisher bought the right to publish (for all they knew) her SHOPPING LIST for $3.7 million. And that’s why I think they anointed her with money because she was “demographically correct.” There’s no rational basis for such a decision. > [@](#): > > Not bad for “the literary equivalent of toddling about without falling over” eh? See: Snooki’s bestseller. Of COURSE the big publishers have the power to astroturf market any piece of crap they like to gullible readerships via traditional media. It’s part of what’s WRONG with traditional media and publishing. I’ll take the unfiltered stuff on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) over that tripe any day. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/90 "2014-11-06T20:52:40Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > …when it was bought for six figures (no one will say whether that means 1 million or 9.9 millions … quite a range, eh?) Um… Not quite the range you think. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/91 "2014-11-06T21:04:10Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Um… Not quite the range you think. Good point, a million is seven figures. And I checked around and it was a seven-figure advance. So the numbers still stand. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/92 "2014-11-06T21:07:50Z")
I think we should just consider ourselves lucky they weren’t Fruity Pebbles, because that doubtless would have made the story even longer. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/93 "2014-11-07T03:59:40Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I know just how you feel. I would hope you would. After all I made it quite clear. But this is not the Pit. Sometimes you accidently step in some dog shit you had no reason to think was there and all you can do is to wipe it off and move on. > [@](#): > > Well that’s why I picked the three authors I did to compare and contrast. E.L. James’ “Fifty Shades of Grey” was already a bestseller when it was bought for six figures (no one will say whether that means 1 million or 9.9 millions … quite a range, eh?) THAT was a business decision … they KNEW they had a hit on their hands, they were just bidding for the right to use their marketing muscle to get it in widespread circulation. Big publishers know just how to make all the traditional media plug a book, that’s how Snookie’s book got on the New York Times Top 10 bestseller list. > > Now what they did for Dunham was entirely different. She didn’t have a book written, just a book proposal. And if you read the article I link to in my blog, her proposal was a 66 page mess, 13% of which was, by volume, a list of foods she ate in 2010. > > That’s right, a New York publisher bought the right to publish (for all they knew) her SHOPPING LIST for $3.7 million. And that’s why I think they anointed her with money because she was “demographically correct.” There’s no rational basis for such a decision. Good thing then that irrational decisions are such good ones from a business POV. Once again, it IS number two on the best seller list. Of course the rich Jewish publishers can do that with any crap. But it is clear that the issue here is the upset over the demographic correctness factor. Your vile interpretation of “demographic correctness” (rich Jewish publishers “anointing One Of Their Own”) being one, but not the only demographic correctness that bothers some. There are _many_ popular entertainers who market themselves as products, successfully, and shamelessly. And many more who try and fail to find an audience that buys what they are selling. The character you have created that you call your name IS your product and your business in that game. Most of the time those of us who are not the target demographic for the product that is one particular entertainer do not pay too much attention to those sales pitches - until they are virtually impossible to avoid (see Trump and Kim Kardeshian). OTOH Dunham is easy to avoid. Don’t pick up her book and don’t watch her show and you won’t be exposed to her unless you chose to. But _her_ success, the fact that _she_ has a following, that there are people (mostly younger single adult women) who like her work (while “they” don’t) and have made her very successful … bothers, intensely bothers, some. Much more than the fact that Miley Cyrus has created a new character, different than the Miley Cyrus persona associated with Hannah Montana, she calls Miley Cyrus that has sold well. That animus from the conservative blogosphere I get - liberal post-modern feminist New York Jewish woman making them very uncomfortable as a major part of her schtick and then playing innocent about their discomfort, of course the conservative blogosphere dislikes her widespread success. How dare she do that? The no-talent attention whore. But the intensity of disike and lionizing (lionessizing?) about her is … fascinating. The highlighted blurbs (from a complete book of essays loosely based on stories in her life) are, by design, TMI. TMI is her schtick and what what her audience is buying. They are uncomfortable. Exactly what she sells. They may be minimally embellished … as any essay based off of stories in a humorist’s life will often be … and written in a manner designed to slightly shock. Again, it is not my sort of thing, but then I never enjoyed Larry David’s schtick either. But I did not find the fact that both Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm had major followings to be offensive. Some like what she does, the TMI, the inappropriateness, the discomfort, that complete product, enough that it sells very very well. And that fact bugs some of you horribly. Interesting. > [@](#): > > I’ll take the unfiltered stuff on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) over that tripe any day. And marketing to you is a poor business model. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/94 "2014-11-07T17:52:36Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > That’s right, a New York publisher bought the right to publish (for all they knew) her SHOPPING LIST for $3.7 million. And that’s why I think they anointed her with money because she was “demographically correct.” There’s no rational basis for such a decision. So tell me, is Aziz Ansari demographically correct? He got a book deal advance for about the same amount of money. Explain that one. Is he secretly Jewish? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/95 "2014-11-07T19:30:13Z")
I don’t think though, **RickJay** , that most of the hostility that is directed towards Dunham (and its notabe absence to Ansari) is based on Dunham being Jewish - **Evil Captor** is not I think representative here. I think it is more that Dunham riffs on issues of sexuality and power in ways that are purposefully uncomfortable. Dammit a young woman riffing on sexuality should be tittilating me! Not making me squirm! Ansari may self-describe as a feminist but it’s not the same thing. Funny thing, both of them are working with Penguin Random House (albeit from different pre-merger sides) - which is majority owned by Bertelsmann SE - yes [\*this \*Bertelsmann SE](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/world/bertelsmann-offers-regret-for-its-nazi-era-conduct.html). The other major owner is the British based Pearson group. The [publisher’s management team](http://global.penguinrandomhouse.com/management/) is [headed by Marcus Dohle](http://www.thebookseller.com/blogs/who-markus-dohle), a German of “liberal-catholic stock” … but never let facts get in the way of a good rant about insular greedy Jews controlling the media. Indeed though, Penguin Random House is a business more committed to selling product than to supporting artists. They figured correctly that Dunham could sell books well enough that she was worth the advance. Not sure if Ansari will sell as many for them but not as many will be upset if he does. His riffing stories off of his life doesn’t evoke people to fact check. He doesn’t get called an attention whore. Maybe if he said things that made some feel more uncomfortable … was more an _uppity_ Indian-American … but he isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/96 "2014-11-07T20:07:08Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > You and the others who’d never heard of her before obviously don’t read Slate or Salon, both of which have published a long string of articles (seemingly one a week, at least) lionizing her or defending her from all the cruel haters of the world, or both. You are correct I do not read those. > [@DSeid](#): > > The book debuted at number 2 best selling nonfiction hardcover and is currently number 2 combined e-book and print sales. I wonder where it would sit if it wasn’t for this “controversy” and all the free press she is getting out of “defending” what she said in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/97 "2014-11-07T20:29:16Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > This I definitely agree with. Baby’s idea of a first joke is to hold out something for you and then not give it to you and fall down laughing her head off. Not something like this. Exactly. Look, babies think that if they cover their eyes with a blanket, nobody can see them. They’ll do it over and over again, cackling wildly when they drop the blanket and you “find” them. No one-year-old can conceive of a prank. Probably no two-year-olds, either. Three? Four? Not sure. But no one-year-olds. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/98 "2014-11-07T20:41:00Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I wonder where it would sit if it wasn’t for this “controversy” and all the free press she is getting out of “defending” what she said in the book. Well the characterization of her story of looking at her one year old sister’s vagina and of her covert masturbation while co-sleeping as sexually abusing (yes that was their headline) her younger sister came out 10/29. The book was released a month earlier and debutted in number two on the non-fiction best seller list. It is [currently](http://www.nytimes.com/best-sellers-books/combined-print-and-e-book-nonfiction/list.html) number 4 combined print and e-book non-fiction, and has been on the top ten list since it came out. Before this newest dust-up, it was consistently number two on that list. Hardcover non-fiction it is now number three on that list, was two before that. So little impact it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/99 "2014-11-07T20:44:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not sure if Ansari will sell as many for them but not as many will be upset if he does. His riffing stories off of his life doesn’t evoke people to fact check. He doesn’t get called an attention whore. Maybe if he said things that made some feel more uncomfortable … was more an _uppity_ Indian-American … but he isn’t. I can assure you, if Ansari’s book involves commentary on the things he found in his siblings genitalia as a child, I will be equally put off. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614/100 "2014-11-07T20:54:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So tell me, is Aziz Ansari demographically correct? He got a book deal advance for about the same amount of money. Explain that one. Is he secretly Jewish? Did 13% of his book proposal consist of a list of foods he ate in 2010? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lena-dunham-wrote-a-book-and-now-things-are-getting-a-bit-ugly/703614.md?page=6)