# Lennon/McCartney partnership--why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386 "2003-08-11T14:31:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/1 "2003-08-11T14:31:59Z")
Two related questions about Lennon/McCartney. First, it is well known that many songs were written only by one or the other. Why didn’t they put these songs out with a single credit? Why did they agree to share everything regardless of who actually did what? And why did this partnerhip include only these two? Why did they exclude other Beatles members from this cozy arrangement? George wrote a few very successful tunes, although I’m only familiar with the later ones (Something, Here Comes The Sun, While My Guitar Gently Weeps), don’t know what he did in the early British Invasion days. I don’t know what Ringo wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Grousser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Grousser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grousser)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/2 "2003-08-11T15:54:08Z")
It seems they did a pact when they were _real buddies_. It was like a marriage swearing themselves eternal love to discover two or three years later that they were anything but compatibles. They hadn’t no problem for signing a legal agreement in their loving days. But oh, my! The divorce was really painful. About your second question, it’s clear. They were a pair egocentric rabbits. George: “Hey, I wrote a new song, it’s cool!”. Lennon and Macca: “Yeah, sure, you show it later, we’re busy”. :rolleyes: (Don’t ask me about the term “egocentric rabbits”, I heard it once) Disclaimer: I’m a huge Beatles fan, too, if anyone gets offended. ---
**Author:** ![Grousser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Grousser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grousser)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/3 "2003-08-11T16:08:46Z")
Sorry. These were from George (until Revolver): _Don’t bother me_ (1963) _I need you_ (1965) -Help! _You like me too much_ (1965) -Help! _Think for yourself_ (1965) -Rubber Soul _If I needed someone_ (1965) -Rubber Soul _Love you to_ (1966) -Revolver _I want to tell you_ (1966) -Revolver Ringo was more prolific ;), he wrote: _Don’t pass me by_ (The Beatles, white album) _Octopus’s Garden_ (Abbey Road) and cowrote: _What goes on!_ (Rubber Soul). Ah, the wonder boys! ---
**Author:** ![RNWebner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@RNWebner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RNWebner)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/4 "2003-08-11T16:16:39Z")
Concerning George, I think that he only developed a talent for songwriting near the end of the Beatles’ reign, and even then it was nothing compared to the abilities of John and Paul. He usually only had one song on every album, if any, and only around The White Album/Abbey Road/Let It Be do I think that his songs were truly good enough to accompany John and Paul’s. They might have held George back a bit, and I remember hearing George say this, but as his solo career shows, I dont think George had much more songwriting talent than he was allowed to show. ---
**Author:** ![Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muldoon_s_Squishiness)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/5 "2003-08-11T16:34:04Z")
**Cooking with Gas** , I’d like a cite for your bit about it being well known that the songs were only written by one or the other. That simply wasn’t the case. One or the other would often come in with a song but it wouldn’t be quite finished and the other would chime in and that is called colaboration. As for George, he was alloted 2 cuts per album, simply because Lennon/McCartney were such prolific songwriters and also because George wasn’t that great a writer at first. But he was also at a disadvantage because he didn’t have a partner to write with. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/6 "2003-08-11T16:41:00Z")
At least poor old George was smart enough not to sell off the publishing rights to the songs he wrote. He didn’t write as many songs as John or Paul, but at least he kept more of the money from the songs he DID write. ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/7 "2003-08-11T17:05:33Z")
Lennon and MacCartney _did_ write in tandem in the beginning but soon composed individually. As for the double credits, there must have been a pact early on, unofficial as it might have been. “And why did this partnerhip include only these two? Why did they exclude other Beatles members from this cozy arrangement?” Well, basically, because at the time the two of them account for about 97% of the Beatles’ output, creativity wise. George wrote quite a number of songs while with the Beatles: Don’t Bother Me For You Blue Here Comes The Sun I Me Mine I Need You I Want To Tell You If I Needed Someone It’s All Too Much Long, Long, Long Love You To Old Brown Shoe Only A Northern Song Piggies Savoy Truffle Something Taxman The Inner Light Think For Yourself While My Guitar Gently Weeps Within You Without You You Like Me Too Much and collaborated on others, among which: Because Chains Do You Want To Know A Secret Eight Days A Week Everybody’s Trying To Be My Baby I’m Happy Just To Dance With You Roll Over Beethoven The Word This Boy Yes It Is You Really Got A Hold On Me He recorded several albums after the Beatles broke up, not the least of which was the excellent _All Things Must Pass_. “As for George, he was alloted 2 cuts per album” I wasn’t aware of a set maximum for George. Do you have a cite? “but as his solo career shows, I dont think George had much more songwriting talent than he was allowed to show.” I don’t know about that. I personally think he was underrated, although I will readily admit that the other two outshone him. His last album/CD, for instance, is excellent in my humble opinion. And one would at least concede that _All Things Must Past_ showed a modicum of talent. But he DID come up with duds, as did the other two (I’m of course excluding Ringo here). ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/8 "2003-08-11T17:30:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Lennon and MacCartney did write in tandem in the beginning but soon composed individually. As for the double credits, there must have been a pact early on, unofficial as it might have been They were still collaborating clear up until the “Ballad of John and Yoko” at least. Obviously they stopped working together shortly after John and Yoko got married. However, Paul mentions in his autobiography “Many Years From Now” that they never really stopped working together until the final albums. They needed each other quite frankly, to balance each other out. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/9 "2003-08-11T17:33:23Z")
George co-wrote “Roll Over Beethoven”? Yeah, right. I wonder if Chuck Berry was aware of that. Lot’s of the early Beatles songs are covers. From the Beatles Anthology, it is clear that L&M did collaborate on many or most of the early songs, either actually writing them together or passing unfinished songs and lyrics to each other. That’s even obvious on a song like “Day in the Life.” Later they did more songs by themselves. George’s first (and only, I think) A side was Something from Abbey Road. Did Ringo write Octopus’ Garden, or just sing it? In the Let It Be movie I seem to remember George teaching it to him - but I saw it a long, long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/10 "2003-08-11T17:51:49Z")
I bet Gerry Goffin and Carole King would also like to know that George helped write “Chains.” 🙂 BTW, it’s important to note that songwriting credits often do not reflect creative input in the music biz. That’s because songwriting credits are really a business arrangement used to divvy up royalties. Sometimes people who had absolutely zero to do with writing the song appear in the credits; sometimes people who were crucial to writing the song aren’t listed. So the Lennon-McCartney arrangement isn’t really anything all that unusual. ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/11 "2003-08-11T18:13:15Z")
My bad. Should have said that Harrison _sang_ those songs while with the Beatles. And, to my credit, I didn’t say that he ‘co-wrote’ _Roll Over Beethoven_ (I’m not a TOTAL Philistine when it comes to rock music!:)). But he damn well sang it!🙂 “They were still collaborating clear up until the “Ballad of John and Yoko” at least.” Wouldn’t argue with you on a subject such as the Beatles, pepperlandgirl…;). Although I think ‘collaborating’ should be… loosely defined for the present purposes. “BTW, it’s important to note that songwriting credits often do not reflect creative input in the music biz. That’s because songwriting credits are really a business arrangement used to divvy up royalties.” Very true. And I read somewhere a long time ago, that the royalties weren’t distributed equally among the four. Far from it. Which makes sense, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/12 "2003-08-11T20:02:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BogieBlanca \* > \*\* > As for George, he was alloted 2 cuts per album, simply because Lennon/McCartney were such prolific songwriters and also because George wasn’t that great a writer at first. But he was also at a disadvantage because he didn’t have a partner to write with. \*\* I don’t have a cite but I also have heard this many times. (It’s possibly in “The Compleat Beatles” or maybe the book: “SHOUT!”) The reason **All Things Must Pass** was such a whopper (3 albums) was because it was primarily a huge backlog of stuff he’d written during the Beatle days that they didn’t use. I think both Lennon & McCartney during their solo careers admitted they needed a writing partner. They’d known each other for so long they were comfortable saying “that’s crap” or “I think you should explore that” to something they maybe had doubts about. (Paul would of course have several collaborations with the likes of Elvis Costello, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, The Pink Floyd Guy whose name is freakishly escaping me…Gilmore?, and probably dozens I’m forgetting.) I don’t think they ever experienced that sort of honesty again though, regardless of who they paired up with. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/13 "2003-08-11T20:43:19Z")
Not to pile on **omni-not** , but Carl Perkins wrote ‘Everybody’s Trying to Be My Baby’. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/14 "2003-08-11T20:50:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Two related questions about Lennon/McCartney. First, it is well known that many songs were written only by one or the other. Why didn’t they put these songs out with a single credit? Why did they agree to share everything regardless of who actually did what? The All Music Guide has a trivia bit that says the pair intended to be a songwriting team (like Bacharach and David) for the long term, even after the band. Of course, that was their intention _at the beginning_, by the end they’d had enough of each other. Even when a lot of their songs were one-person efforts, I think there was often some editing and help from the other. ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/15 "2003-08-11T23:03:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by F. U. Shakespeare \* > \*\*Not to pile on **omni-not** , but Carl Perkins wrote ‘Everybody’s Trying to Be My Baby’. \*\* Ugh. **F.U.** :), read my previous post… **Vogue** , you’re thinking either of David Gilmour or Roger Waters. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/16 "2003-08-11T23:40:03Z")
Didn’t the Beatles pass on “My Sweet Lord” in favor of some minor McCartney tune? Towards the end, Harrison was writing songs as good as Lennon/McCartney. _Something_ is still one of the most covered songs in history, and “Taxman”, “Here Comes the Sun” and “While My Guitar Gently Weeps” are among the best of the Beatles songs. ---
**Author:** ![Swede\_Hollow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Swede\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swede_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/17 "2003-08-14T01:04:04Z")
For the first question: As mentioned above, John and Paul wanted to be a writing team (the term Paul used in **Anthology** was (IIRC) to be like Rodgers & Hammerstein). For question 2: As mentioned in **Anthology** , when the _Beatles_ first got started the only songwriters in the group were Lennon and McCartney (or McCartney and Lennon for the Paul fans 😉 ). George and Ringo were strictly musicians. ---
**Author:** ![Moo\_the\_Magic\_Cow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@Moo\_the\_Magic\_Cow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moo_the_Magic_Cow)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/18 "2003-08-14T02:38:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BogieBlanca \* > \*\ ***Cooking with Gas** , I’d like a cite for your bit about it being well known that the songs were only written by one or the other. > \*\* [http://www.smackbomb.com/beatles/biography\_johnlennon\_plyby.html](http://www.smackbomb.com/beatles/biography_johnlennon_plyby.html) That’s a transcription of an interview with Lennon. > [@](#): > > Well, we all know about “Yesterday.” I have had so much accolade for “Yesterday.” That is Paul’s song, of course, and Paul’s baby. Well done. Beautiful – and I never wished I had written it. > [@](#): > > When I’m Sixty-Four - - > Paul completely. I would never even dream of writing a song like that. There are some areas I never think about and that is one of them. Yes, it’s general knowledge. No, it’s not a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/19 "2003-08-14T04:28:36Z")
So who can name the only song with a writing credit of Lennon/McCartney/Harrison/Starr? Or are there two? I know for sure there’s one… ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2003, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386/20 "2003-08-14T05:37:55Z")
“Dig It” (which is a short jam on Let it Be) is credited to all four Beatles. “Cry For a Shadow” (on the first Anthology, recorded in Germany) is the only Lennon Harrison credit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lennon-mccartney-partnership-why/194386.md?page=2)