# Leno/Conan Shakeup at NBC **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 7, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073 "2010-01-07T21:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/281 "2010-01-13T21:48:44Z")
I think it only makes a difference to half of the country what time the Tonight Show comes on. On the coasts, yes, putting it a half hour later will put it on at 12:05, which is effectively the following day. But here in Arizona, where I live, we are in the Mountain Time Zone. Prime time runs from 7-10, followed by the local news, then the Tonight Show or Letterman or Nightline or whatever at 10:35. If they move Leno after the news, then Conan would come on at 11:05, which is still the same day. This is also true in the Central Time Zone. I think the biggest harm to Conan from all this would be that if his show were pushed back a half hour, and Leno’s show came on after the news, people would turn off Jay and switch over to Letterman on CBS. Once there, they wouldn’t switch away a half hour later to catch O’Brien. People who do, would probably watch Kimmell, whose show also starts at the top of the hour (12:05 on the coasts, 11:05 in flyover country). ETA: > [@Rigamarole](#): > > He didn’t tell them that at all. He told them he wasn’t willing to move to a later time slot in a very mild and civil way. > > It’s showbusiness. He could have been way harsher and they still would try to keep him, because that’s all it is: business. Conan has been acting very professionally through all this. I expect him to honor his contract and appear on the Tonight Show as long as it airs at 11:35 and put on the best show he is capable of. To do any less would show NBC that he is not worth keeping, after all. He only said he would quit doing the show if NBC moved it to a later time. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/282 "2010-01-13T21:57:50Z")
> [@bup](#): > > [QUOTE=Bricker] > It’s supremely hilarious to me to read the multitude of posts which argue: “I like Conan the best, therefore NBC should agree that Conan’s views concerning the contract are more solid than Leno’s.” If you find that hilarious, you’ll love “Headlines.” Leno reads typos in ad copy. [/QUOTE] comedy gold ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/283 "2010-01-13T21:58:10Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > It’s a big country. It doesn’t take all that many families, relative to the size of the country, to get statistically valid results. There’s a misconception some people have that you have to have some significant percentage of the population to get valid results. That doesn’t apply when your population is huge. If a few thousand people are good enough in a population of a million, they’ll also be good in a population of 300 million as long as they’re chosen randomly. Sure it may be statistically relevant due to pure population size, but as **DiosaBellissima** said, the demographics (that advertisers/networks tout ad nauseum) are seriously screwed up. Twentysomething sci-fi nerds _are_ undercounted in Nielsen boxes, there’s no two ways about it. And for that matter, cable companies give people access to hundreds of channels. With the small sample size, it has to be hard to accurately track how many viewers of some of the smaller (but possibly not as small as you think) channels. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/284 "2010-01-13T22:08:43Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > comedy gold Cracked me the hell up. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/285 "2010-01-13T22:41:35Z")
Channels can pay Nielsen extra for more sampling of their channel. Not sure how many choose to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/286 "2010-01-14T00:07:42Z")
The other late-night hosts have had a field day with this. Craig Fergusen teed off on NBC all night, calling them “F\*cking rat bastards” among other things. He was absolutely hilarious all night last night. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/287 "2010-01-14T00:25:17Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > He didn’t tell them that at all. He told them he wasn’t willing to move to a later time slot in a very mild and civil way. Can he do that, though? If his contract doesn’t specify 11:30, can he walk away without breaching the contract with NBC? ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/288 "2010-01-14T00:52:21Z")
Neilson methodology is pretty good. It only seems to come into question when people dont like the ratings of their favorite shows. Conan’s numbers are pretty accurate. He actually does pretty well in the 19-49 demographic and beats Letterman there. Letterman is the king of the 49+. Leno is good at that demographic too. Why NBC expected Conan to beat Letterman in that demographic, especially in under 7 months, is beyond me. Looks like they set him up to fail. Heh, can I get Leno’s agent to represent me? This is like his second big coup. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/289 "2010-01-14T00:56:12Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Can he do that, though? If his contract doesn’t specify 11:30, can he walk away without breaching the contract with NBC? Conan has been on the air a long time. He has Fuck You Money. Although he’d still probably want to avoid breaching his contract, if that’s what it came down to he would probably rather do that than be forced to suffer the indignities he perceives. Or he’d find some other way out of it. Depends just what’s in the contract, which obviously none of us are privy to. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/290 "2010-01-14T02:04:12Z")
I think Conan should move to Comedy Central after Stewart and Colbert and just go effing _nuts_. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/291 "2010-01-14T02:08:09Z")
I wonder if Jay knows Brett Favre. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/292 "2010-01-14T02:26:03Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I wonder if Jay knows Brett Favre. 😉 That was the immediate comparison to my mind, too. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/293 "2010-01-14T02:39:06Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > People are picked at random for TV and radio ratings. You can’t ask to get a box. I have done radio ratings a few times, I wrote it down in a diary. They are very careful to make sure all age groups are in the sample equally - they don’t want a bad sample. TV ratings are very scientific, a lot of money and planning go into them because a lot of money is at stake for ad rates and which shows stay and which get axed. That’s incorrect, at least for TV ratings. In fact Nielsen says that it’s survey IS NOT a scientific sample and what is more, they don’t care. Nielsen makes money by selling ratings to TV stations. TV stations have to BUY this information. It’s not given to them. So Nielsen goes to TV stations in markets it makes up. Despite Wikipedia, Nielsen decides TV markets not the FCC. The FCC uses Nielsen markets 'cause it’s convenient for them but they are total creations of Nielsen. After Nielsen gets informtion from TV stations that pay Nielsen money, about the kind of people the TV stations are looking to sell product to, Nielsen goes out and gets those types of people. Nielsen uses “people meters” in the top markets and eventually will do away with diaries all together, 'cause they’re woefully inaccurate. This is the biggest gripe TV stations owners have. They know Nielsen isn’t very accurate, but there is no other game in town. How do you sell ad space without it. Odd examples are TV stations carried by cable or reached over the air in other markets. For instance, in the eastern part of the South Bend market, Chicago TV stations come in easily. But those numbers don’t count. The people watch ads, they buy stuff based on those ads, but the people in one area only count to which they’re assigned in. Other examples are NJ were New York and Philly stations can both come in. Or Baltimore and DC or Boston and Providence. If your Baltimore TV stations has an additonal 100,000 viewers from DC, those don’t count toward selling ad revenue at all. This is especially intense in ad markets like San Diego, Detroit and Buffalo which have huge numbers of audiences in Mexico and Windsor, and Toronto, yet these viewers don’t help sell ads in those markets, because of the way Nielsen computes their numbers. Nielsen also has a lot of flack from black and Latino groups, which Nielsen way undercounts. It wasn’t till recently when the Spanish networks like Univison started using Nieslen to measure their stations, so Nielsen simply didn’t count them. These are reasons why so many people say “Why is TV so bad?” “Why doesn’t it reflect what people want or their values.” The answer is simple, because it’s not meant to. Roone Aldridge of ABC went so far to say, “We don’t program TV for people to watch, we program TV to make money.” ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/294 "2010-01-14T02:46:17Z")
The lowest common denominator doesnt have any taste. What we all have in common is pretty crummy. Why is it when shows move to smaller cable networks then they automatically get better? The rating system is still the same. Im not buying the argument that Neilson is fixed or incompetent. I think audiences get what they deserve. The question is how can you have quality when youre trying to appeal to a million different demographics at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/295 "2010-01-14T03:10:56Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Maaan, what’s all this ‘do that to him’ jazz? Come on. This is business. We are going from cheering for our guy to get the slot to just getting all emotional an’ shit. Eh, I disagree. Very few things are ever just “business”. There’s personality, pride, scruples… it’s not unreasonable to think that Conan (or any number of people in that situation) would view it partly in human terms. [QUOTE=Bricker] It’s supremely hilarious to me to read the multitude of posts which argue: “I like Conan the best, therefore NBC should agree that Conan’s views concerning the contract are more solid than Leno’s.” [/QUOTE] Likewise - it’s not just liking Conan the best; even impartial observers who’d never heard of either guy would probably agree there’s a basic element of unfairness about all this. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/296 "2010-01-14T03:26:19Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Likewise - it’s not just liking Conan the best; even impartial observers who’d never heard of either guy would probably agree there’s a basic element of unfairness about all this. Indeed. I’ve got no horse in this race; I never watch Jay nor Conan. I see a network that ignored the advice they were given and went ahead with their plan with Jay last fall. When it had exactly the impact on their affiliates’ late local news that had been predicted, and the affiliates screamed blue bloody murder, they decided to reverse field, and jerk Conan around in hopes of keeping Jay happy (well, more like, in hopes of keeping Jay from showing up on another network). It seems like Conan’s about the only guy who will come out of this looking good. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/297 "2010-01-14T03:41:26Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Nielsen also has a lot of flack from black and Latino groups, which Nielsen way undercounts. It wasn’t till recently when the Spanish networks like Univison started using Nielsen to measure their stations, so Nielsen simply didn’t count them. I had a broadcasting textbook (unfortunately, I already sold it for beer money so I can’t look up the exact quote), which had a brief mention of this issue. It said when Nielsen and Arbitron (they do the radio ratings) started venturing out into black communities to look for people to participate, they had a hard time because many of their workers quit or refused to go into those areas to deal with the people there. I found that hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/298 "2010-01-14T03:46:03Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > they had a hard time because many of their workers quit or refused to go into those areas to deal with the people there. I found that hilarious. I’ve heard there are similar issues when trying to hire workers for the US Census. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/299 "2010-01-14T03:47:11Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It seems like Conan’s about the only guy who will come out of this looking good. Jay said he’d walk, so he’d come out looking good too. If both of these guys are really intent on walking, then NBC will likely change their plan, keep Conan where he is and move Leno somewhere else. If these guys are really going to leave, then there is no point for NBC to lose them both and end up with Fallon or TBD hosting The Tonight Show. At this point, NBC has no more face to lose; anything they do will help their image. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/300 "2010-01-14T03:49:39Z")
Interesting post **Markxxx** – thanks. > [@Markxxx](#): > > Nielsen also has a lot of flack from black and Latino groups, which Nielsen way undercounts. It wasn’t till recently when the Spanish networks like Univison started using Nieslen to measure their stations, so Nielsen simply didn’t count them. Years ago Tavis Smiley had an interesting episode on his radio program about Nielsen, the under-representation of blacks, and how this affects TV programing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073.md?page=16)