# Leno/Conan Shakeup at NBC **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 7, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073 "2010-01-07T21:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/501 "2010-01-17T03:16:15Z")
Something I just noticed, but up until Friday, Leno hasn’t been making fun of other late night hosts. Last night, however, he took a shot at [Letterman](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/16/leno-letterman-sex-scanda_n_425748.html). A very well deserved shot IMO. This controversy doesn’t really concern Letterman, so he’s fair game after he decided to make fun of Leno. The joke went: “Even Dave Letterman taking shots at me. Which is a surprise. Usually he’s just taking shots at interns.” And Conan has been really fun to watch this week. He looks like he’s having a blast every time he comes out on stage despite everything going on behind the scenes. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/502 "2010-01-17T05:58:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He belongs somewhere else doing a different show. I hope the BBC realize the same of Graham Norton now that Jonathan Ross is leaving. BTW, I see the claim on many sites that Leno’s show “flopped” and that his audience declined from an “initial” 18 million to 5 million. Which frankly is strictly false and disingenuous. If you look at the [ratings](http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090924/LIFE/909240301) of the first week of the Jay Leno show, he only got 18 million in the very first show, which then dropped to 11 million by Tuesday, a slight bump the next, then monotonic decline to 5 million by the next Monday. Clearly, in the beginning, the novelty factor was at work. Once the Monday audience saw it was just a vanilla talk show, only the interested remained. This was not unexpected. From the article: _Reality sets in this week: Monday’s Leno episode had 5.7 million viewers, with demographic ratings on the cusp of what NBC considers profitable in the long term._. And the show has held onto those level of ratings. It hasn’t flopped as per NBC’s expectations. It’s flopped as per the affiliates. They made the stink and so Leno’s cancelled. It is NBC’s failure that they didn’t anticipate the affiliates’ concerns. ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/503 "2010-01-17T07:52:18Z")
looks like Howard Stern saw the future and predicted something like this was gonna happen. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/uxcAAb60lik/hqdefault.jpg "Howard Stern warns Conan about Leno - Dec. 14, 2006") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxcAAb60lik) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/504 "2010-01-17T16:51:09Z")
> [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > I hope the BBC realize the same of Graham Norton now that Jonathan Ross is leaving. > > BTW, I see the claim on many sites that Leno’s show “flopped” and that his audience declined from an “initial” 18 million to 5 million. Which frankly is strictly false and disingenuous. If you look at the [ratings](http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090924/LIFE/909240301) of the first week of the Jay Leno show, he only got 18 million in the very first show, which then dropped to 11 million by Tuesday, a slight bump the next, then monotonic decline to 5 million by the next Monday. Clearly, in the beginning, the novelty factor was at work. Once the Monday audience saw it was just a vanilla talk show, only the interested remained. This was not unexpected. From the article: _Reality sets in this week: Monday’s Leno episode had 5.7 million viewers, with demographic ratings on the cusp of what NBC considers profitable in the long term._. And the show has held onto those level of ratings. It hasn’t flopped as per NBC’s expectations. It’s flopped as per the affiliates. They made the stink and so Leno’s cancelled. It is NBC’s failure that they didn’t anticipate the affiliates’ concerns. Hey, don’t introduce facts into a fan discussion! ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Daedelus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daedelus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/505 "2010-01-17T21:26:08Z")
I was just turned on to this story: [Private Site](http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/01/16/conans-characters-left-behind-at-nbc/39158) Can you believe that shit? Say what you will about the quality of Conan or Leno’s bits, but I think it’s complete and utter bullshit (though not necessarily surprising) that NBC owns the IP for sketches developed on Conan’s show by his staff. Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/506 "2010-01-17T21:34:25Z")
> [@Daedelus](#): > > I was just turned on to this story: [http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/01/16/conans-characters-left-behind-at-nbc/39158](http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/01/16/conans-characters-left-behind-at-nbc/39158) > > Can you believe that shit? Say what you will about the quality of Conan or Leno’s bits, but I think it’s complete and utter bullshit (though not necessarily surprising) that NBC owns the IP for sketches developed on Conan’s show by his staff. Ridiculous. Wow, that’s pretty shitty. I cannot imagine NBC will ever use those characters/skits in anything else…is this just pettiness on their part? Unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/507 "2010-01-17T23:04:29Z")
Between this and the supposed lack of a time-slot guarantee in the contract, it’s increasingly likely that the rumors that Conan’s team did a lousy job in contract negotiations are true… ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Daedelus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daedelus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/508 "2010-01-17T23:07:41Z")
I think it’s completely obvious at this point that whoever negotiated Conan’s contract did a terrible job. Still, the NBC IP grab seems to be pure, unadulterated, man-boy spite aimed at Conan for putting the spotlight on Zuckface & Co. ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/509 "2010-01-17T23:17:16Z")
That’s not surprising. NBC said the same thing to Letterman when he left for CBS in 1993. He had to change the name of his bits and NBC tried to stop him from doing his Top Ten Lists. O’Brien can’t have been surprised; he would have known that NBC felt the same way about his show’s material. I think his people got as much from NBC in his contract as he could have hoped. It was pretty close to Leno’s original deal, and O’Brien _did_ want the Tonight Show more than NBC wanted him to host. It’s the same reasoning that says if you invent something while working at a company, the company own the patent. NBC is paying people to come up with material on a show they own, of course they feel they own that material. It’s why Conan should try to get ownership of whatever new show he has on Fox or cable. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/510 "2010-01-17T23:35:42Z")
I was just speculating about this last night. I assumed Conan would lose all his skits. What about Triumph? Who owns that? ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Daedelus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daedelus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/511 "2010-01-17T23:38:15Z")
That is Smigel’s bit, but more than likely it’s owned by NBC. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/512 "2010-01-17T23:46:29Z")
Sometimes when you really want to make a deal you expect your lawyers to do a good job and don’t check to see what they really did. Sounds like that is what happened to Conan. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/513 "2010-01-17T23:54:20Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Sometimes when you really want to make a deal you expect your lawyers to do a good job and don’t check to see what they really did. Sounds like that is what happened to Conan. I wonder if it was a simple matter of “Well, I intend to host the Tonight Show until I retire, so it’s not a big deal if they claim ownership of the Masturbating Bear.” ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/514 "2010-01-17T23:58:31Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > I wonder if it was a simple matter of “Well, I intend to host the Tonight Show until I retire, so it’s not a big deal if they claim ownership of the Masturbating Bear.” Maybe they could replace him with the Masturbating Square, using a Jeff Zucker lookalike. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/515 "2010-01-18T00:52:09Z")
> [@2ply](#): > > That’s not surprising. NBC said the same thing to Letterman when he left for CBS in 1993. He had to change the name of his bits and NBC tried to stop him from doing his Top Ten Lists. IIRC, Letterman did lose the rights to the character Larry “Bud” Melman, but got to keep doing Top Ten Lists (although there was a fight about that). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Jon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bb73d2/32.png) [@Evil\_Jon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Jon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/516 "2010-01-18T00:56:58Z")
New idea for a skit: “Most Expensive Joke Ever” - Once a week Conan makes a hilarious joke about NBC resulting in millions of dollars in penalties. He’d be a comic legend. ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/517 "2010-01-18T01:08:57Z")
Some interesting links I’ve come across in the last couple of days… Five years ago, Leno made [an announcement](http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.funnyordie.com%252Fvideos%252F6d1caacad1%252Fjay-s-2004-announcement&h=80f0111155474585b08cd74fcb3d038d&ref=nf) on his show that he had agreed to turn The Tonight Show over to Conan in 2009. > [@](#): > > “It’s not tomorrow, it’s five years from now, and I want to say I don’t think there’s a better choice, because, you know, when I took the show over, boy, there was a lot of animosity between me and Dave, and ‘who’s gonna get it?’, and quite frankly, a lot of good friendships were permanently damaged. And I don’t want to see anybody have to go through that ever again. This show is like a dynasty – you hold it, and then you hand it off to the next person. And I don’t want to see all the fighting and all the ‘who’s better?’ and all the nasty things back and forth. So right now, here it is: Conan, it’s yours! See you in five years, buddy!” Then there’s [this 1992 New York Times article,](http://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/23/arts/jay-leno-criticizes-nbc-on-tonight-cliffhanger.html?pagewanted=1) “Jay Leno Criticizes NBC on ‘Tonight’ Cliffhanger”: > [@](#): > > “Am I crazy?” Mr. Leno said in a telephone interview. “The ratings are going up, the advertisers are happy and so are the affiliates.” And yet Mr. Leno said he had not received any assurances from NBC executives in New York that he would not be dropped in favor of Mr. Letterman by Jan. 15. That is the deadline NBC is facing to match a CBS offer to give Mr. Letterman about $16 million to star in a nightly talk show at 11:30, the same time as the “Tonight” show. > > “I am disappointed,” Mr. Leno said. “I feel like a guy who has bought a car from somebody, painted it, fixed it up and made it look nice and then the guy comes back and says he promised to sell the car to his brother-in-law.” > > Go Elsewhere? ‘Of Course’ > > Mr. Leno said he would “obviously leave NBC immediately” if the network decided to give the “Tonight” show to Mr. Letterman. He said he would absolutely refuse to do a show in the 12:30 A.M. spot now occupied by Mr. Letterman’s show, “Late Night,” and would indeed consider creating the same problem for NBC that Mr. Letterman’s proposed deal with CBS caused. Finally, the Times ran [this hilarious Op-Ed,](http://www.nytimes.com/ref/opinion/17opclassic_conan.html) a scathing review of Conan’s new late-night show from 1993. > [@](#): > > The crowd was visibly eager to like the young newcomer, but some seemed puzzled by the radical new set. The backdrop, consisting of 15-foot representations of Mr. O’Brien’s laughing head, loomed over his desk and chair, both carved from illegally imported African ivory. While this was somewhat unsettling, an aura of eager anticipation still hung in the air. > > Until, that is, the new Late Night band began to play. Composed of musicians cut by the Boston Pops, the band lurched into an interminable version of “Waltzing Matilda,” apparently the show’s theme song. The bandleader, a surly cellist, refused to make eye contact with anyone and hissed at a young girl who tried to clap along. As the music sputtered to a flaccid conclusion, thick jets of foam were dumped on the audience from hidden ceiling ducts. As people wiped the stinging lather from their eyes, Mr. O’Brien jumped out from behind a curtain and cheerfully quipped, “Ha, ha, you’re all foamy!” ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Daedelus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daedelus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/518 "2010-01-18T01:42:37Z")
That last one is priceless! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/519 "2010-01-18T23:50:45Z")
Anyone think that this was all a Xanatos gambit on Conan’s part? He could have quit back in 2004 and went to Fox, but, this way, he gets $30 million and a devoted fanbase to follow him. (Merely moving to Fox when his show was doing well on NBC would have lost him viewers.) Okay, so it probably wasn’t planned that well. But I do think the reason he negotiated for the Tonight Show back then was that, if it did well, he’d do well. But if it tanked, NBC would have to buy him out of the contract or just keep paying him. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/520 "2010-01-18T23:56:22Z")
> [@Daedelus](#): > > That last one is priceless! I read the whole thing before checking the byline. :eek:😕:dubious::smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073.md?page=27)