# Leno/Conan Shakeup at NBC **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 7, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073 "2010-01-07T21:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/541 "2010-01-19T18:18:01Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I thought he threw the pencils at the audience, but he flipped his index cards at the fake windows, and that’s what made the glass shattering sound. Did he really ever throw pencils at the audience? I can see that going terribly, terribly wrong. Yes, he flips cards through the fake windows, leading to the shattering sound and/or some inappropriate sound effect or sound bite. He also occasionally has stupid pet/human tricks. Of course the Top 10 lists are still a regular feature. “Viewer Mail” became “The CBS Mail Bag” (because the name “viewer mail” is intellectual property? really?), but was dropped years ago. Calvert DeForest a.k.a. “Larry ‘Bud’ Melman” made a few appearances under his own name. I’m pretty sure he continued dropping things off buildings for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/542 "2010-01-19T18:36:09Z")
> [@BMada](#): > > you believe what he says? I’m not sure Team Conan would. Who is it who said, “Do not attribute to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence.” ? I think that can be applied here. Jay went along with what his employer asked him to do. None of it has been illegal or immoral. Really, most of us do the same thing. I teach classes at school. They are not my classes; they belong to the school district. If they decide to move one of my classes to another part of the day, I may point out some problems with that, but, ultimately, I will teach what they want me to teach when they want me to teach it. Or, I will take my time and talents to another school. Same deal here. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/543 "2010-01-19T18:38:20Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Did he really ever throw pencils at the audience? I can see that going terribly, terribly wrong. Yeah - I think usually he winged them at the camera, but I can remember seeing them go into the audience as well. I did read somewhere that he has special pencils with erasers at both ends, though. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/544 "2010-01-19T18:43:26Z")
A couple thoughts: IMO, NBC hasn’t handled _The Tonight Show_ well since Carson left. First, the whole ugly situation with Letterman and Leno–which, IMO, was compounded greatly by the fact that they chose Leno over Letterman. Then, this thing with announcing O’Brien as the new host something like 5 years before the changeover. I’m not sure why, but that just feels like a poor move to me. It sort of put Leno in a long “lame-duck” status. And then, the deal giving Leno his own PT show 5 nights a week. As a sort of “Early Tonight Show”, it seems to just lower the ratings of the actual _Tonight Show_ and water down the pool of potential guests for both shows. Moreover, the very dynamic of a late-night, “after your local news” program has become somewhat moribund because of DVR’s, internet viewing on demand (e.g. Hulu), and just the general change in television audience’s demographics as well as that audience’s changing lifestyle (not as many folks have a predictable 9-5 job, dinner, then consistent evening leisure-time routine anymore). Those audience changes actually make the creation of the 10 PM Leno show a bit more understandable I think, but at the expense of the _Tonight Show_. Maybe _TTS_’s time has come and gone. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/545 "2010-01-19T20:54:07Z")
Perhaps Fox has already registered “[ConanOnFox.com](http://ConanOnFox.com)”?? [Conan on Fox](http://www.tmz.com/2010/01/19/twentieth-century-fox-registers-conan-obrien-website-conanonfoxcom-nbc-jay-leno-jeff-zucker/) ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/546 "2010-01-19T21:22:28Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > A couple thoughts: > > IMO, NBC hasn’t handled _The Tonight Show_ well since Carson left. First, the whole ugly situation with Letterman and Leno–which, IMO, was compounded greatly by the fact that they chose Leno over Letterman. They chose the guy who ended up with higher ratings for 14 years. So in the long run they made the right choice. And Letterman made more at CBS with lower ratings so he ended up OK too. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/547 "2010-01-19T21:35:44Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > They chose the guy who ended up with higher ratings for 14 years. So in the long run they made the right choice. I’m not sure that proves anything. Leno inherited a franchise that had existed, with minor interruptions, since the 1950s, while Letterman had to start from scratch. Some viewers were going to continue watching the Tonight Show because it was what they had always done. Also for much of the past couple of decades, NBC has been a primetime powerhouse while CBS… has not. A lot of people don’t bother changing the channel after their favorite shows. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/548 "2010-01-19T21:38:28Z")
Why do I keep having the sense that this is another case of baby boomers being used to having their way for their whole fucking lives, and not allowing the generation(s) after to finally get their chance? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/549 "2010-01-19T21:38:59Z")
I guess we can’t go back in time to see what would have happened if they hired Letterman, but from all accounts NBC was very happy with Leno. Right up until they forced him out last year 🙂 BTW, IMO Letterman did not start from scratch, he had a big fan base from his 12:30 NBC show. Had they hired a guy with no show ,that would be starting from scratch. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/550 "2010-01-19T22:29:02Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Why do I keep having the sense that this is another case of baby boomers being used to having their way for their whole fucking lives, and not allowing the generation(s) after to finally get their chance? Should Boomers not have their choice on TV? And you should? Ideally, both Conan and Jay (and Letterman, et al.) would have a show at 11:30 and viewers would happily watch their favorite, but NBC wants them both purely out of fear that the one they don’t choose would beat them in the ratings. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/551 "2010-01-19T22:30:42Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Why do I keep having the sense that this is another case of baby boomers being used to having their way for their whole fucking lives, and not allowing the generation(s) after to finally get their chance? Thank God they’re starting to die off. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/552 "2010-01-19T22:37:04Z")
Conan is technically a baby boomer, Census bureau says it ended in 1964. [Mid-20th century baby boom - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-World_War_II_baby_boom) Most people think the boom ended in the 50s. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/553 "2010-01-19T23:18:33Z")
It looks as if the only thing holding up a deal now is the amount of compensation Conan wants his staffers to get who will be out of a job. O’Brien is seeking up to $12 million as compensation for his workers who are not under contracts. NBC wants to pay out considerably less. At least Conan is demonstrating some class by fighting to get his staff members as much money as they can for being out of work, even though the network places the blame on him for their being jobless. [http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/obrien-talks-held-up-over-staff-severance/](http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/obrien-talks-held-up-over-staff-severance/) ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/554 "2010-01-19T23:25:21Z")
Maybe a dumb question , but it takes 200 people to do a talk show? Leno said he has 175 which seems very high too. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/555 "2010-01-19T23:53:21Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Maybe a dumb question , but it takes 200 people to do a talk show? Leno said he has 175 which seems very high too. I can believe it. It may not _require_ that many, but with corporate bloat and including everyone involved it can get up there. Every cameraman, sound guy, control room operator, director, ushers, interns, custodians, writers, band members, backstage managers, personal assistants, set dressers, lighting guys, and Og knows how many desk job types. Then anybody who does on-site stuff, including the other comedians he’s been working with on bits, and the whole car-racing thing. It adds up. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/556 "2010-01-20T00:08:13Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Why do I keep having the sense that this is another case of baby boomers being used to having their way for their whole fucking lives, and not allowing the generation(s) after to finally get their chance? And after we gave you the best years of our lives? This is the thanks we get? ☹ Don’t you non-baby boomers just stare into your computer screens instead of watching TV? It’s not like a lot of you were plonking yourselves down in the living room to watch Conan anyway. He’ll land on his feet, showing up on some other network, no matter what time it is. Watch him on your computer the next day and leave the old-fashioned television set to us old farts, we’re too set in our ways to change now. ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/557 "2010-01-20T05:21:49Z")
anyone know why Conan needs to be off the air by this week? Isn’t the winter olympics starting in mid February? What are they gonna air until then? re-runs? Wouldn’t it be wise to keep him on air for as long as possible and make a ratings grab/use Conan? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/558 "2010-01-20T05:24:18Z")
Because the whole thing is an embarrassment for NBC, and the sooner they end it, the less time everyone spends talking about how much the network sucks. ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/559 "2010-01-20T05:26:17Z")
but i thought it was all about the ratings… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/560 "2010-01-20T05:35:33Z")
But his ratings weren’t good, remember? That’s part of what caused this. They’re up somewhat now, but if the situation were resolved and everyone knew he would be on the air another month it’s unlikely that would last. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073.md?page=29)